Children suffer more before divorce than after

family law

Children suffer more from the parental arguments before divorce than they do after the marriage has come to an end.

An academic from the University of York, Gloria Moroni, has suggested that behavioural issues such as hyperactivity or emotional development problems can be the result of such conflict. She analysed data from around 19,000 children who were born in the year 2000. Those whose parents divorced were, on average, 30 per cent more likely to display behavioural problems than children whose family was still intact.

However this does not mean that it is the divorce itself which causes such issues, the author insists. Moroni said:

“[T]he fact that children of divorced parents have on average lower cognitive and non-cognitive skills compared with children of intact families is not necessarily due to divorce itself”.

Cognitive skills include reading and paying attention, whereas non-cognitive skills are things like motivation and self-control.

Moroni claimed that the majority of the damage done was a result of the “pre-divorce circumstances and characteristics of the family”. Parents who argue and eventually divorce “may also be lower-educated, may also be poorer” she suggested.

Married couples with children should be made “aware of the potential negative impact of conflict” and called for “effective response to reduce the divorce gap, especially in non-cognitive skills of children”.

Back in 2014, then-Prime Minister David Cameron suggested that sometimes a parent’s divorce can be in their child’s best interests. The former Tory leader said that in cases of domestic violence, the priority should be “making sure people are safe, rather than keeping a family together”.

The findings of the University of York study were presented on Monday to the Royal Economic Society’s annual conference.

Photo by Guian Bolisay via Flickr under a Creative Commons licence.

Stowe Family Law Web Team

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50 comments

Paul - April 11, 2017 at 12:39pm

This is utter rubbish. I have very real world experience of this all of this. The problem with all of this is familys been split appart by police. Often for no genuine reason forcing fathers into the hands of soliciters and family courts where they are financially destroyed. The problem with these domestic issues is that the family laws are made by upper class Torys whos only experience with domestic insidents is an afternoon watching Jeremy Kyle. The law makes maters worse. Its completly devorced from real life. It is deliberatly predudicial against fathers. Make no mistake family law is designed to rinse fathers.
By not giving fathers a fair hearing and a voice without listening to fathers you make fathers volatile and escilate situations. Fathers are 100% right to be angry with the system we have today.
Women or mothers are NEVER held accountible for anything they do wrong.
We have a princess culture in this country.
Fathers are dealt a raw deal. Then given an massive bill for it. They are expected to take it without reacting. If they react they end up in trouble with the police. It the most psycologically destructive thing anyone can experience.

JamesB - April 12, 2017 at 12:28pm

Do the establishment care about how fathers suffer following divorce I wonder? They should be concerned with heir high suicide rate. Families need fathers. Very appropriately named that organisation. I am not a member. Depressing to leave the kids, depressing to fight to see them.

JamesB - April 12, 2017 at 12:48pm

To clarify the point, it is not in the long term interests of the child to see the father stitched up and not present following divorce and that point is missing from this article. Entirely agree with Paul G above who also makes this point. It is unacceptable to disregard the fathers as is usual in these cases as doing so enables the figures to be worked out (with benefits) to give the mum and children a life, there has to be a better way please.

I agree it is not good for children to be in high conflict situations. As a child I was and agree with that point that it is better for them not to be. If you impoverish the father you are making a bigger problem than the one you are resolving though. He needs good contact and finances also, for him and the children and mother to do ok, a solution is oftentimes not possible where there is insufficient money to go round and the father takes the hit, instead in those cases the load should be shared. The answer is pre and post nups and assumption of shared parenting 50:50 to stop fathers bearing the brunt of the changing nature of relationships, which I accept is not necessarily a bad thing, provided it is not the fathers in this system like the mothers in the sharia system who unfairly shoulder too much of the load.

JamesB - April 12, 2017 at 12:55pm

who unfairly shoulder too much of the load, replace with, who usually bear the brunt of the unfairness when there is not enough money to sort things out well for 1 household into 2, this is normally the case, that finances and assets are stretched too far and lawyers dont say this. Instead women especially see the high money high profile divorces and think its going to be ok and egged on by articles like this one go for it and they and their children suffer for it down the line. Better for them, probably, better for the children, maybe, better for Dad, probably not. Thus, until you start engaging with fathers in this F’d up system you have an unworkable model meaning lower class people don’t marry.

So, perhaps the white collars marry and the blue collars do not. I think that is unsustainable. People don’t vote for people who are not like them and to whom they cannott relate, recent events support that.

Yvie - April 12, 2017 at 1:38pm

When parents can maintain a reasonable relationship post-divorce, it can ease the pressure of the divorce on the children. However, in many cases there is high conflict resulting in custody cases and one parent (or both parents) maligning the other. It does not even need to be in front of the children as children do pick up on negative emotions. In some ways the addition of a step-parent can make it harder for the children. A mother who has had conflict in the past with her ex. might just prefer to move on with her new partner. It may be preferable to her rather than continuing limited contact with her ex. because the children. The effect of this is to airbrush the biological parent out of the lives of his children. The natural instinct of a father who knows he is being airbrushed out of the lives of his children is to fight to remain in the lives of his children. It can make a father feel tetchy and insecure when his role as a father is being taken over by someone else and this negativity can also impact on the children and unsettle them. This may be a green light to a mother who would prefer to move on to try and reduce the children’s contact with the biological father.

Paul - April 12, 2017 at 2:39pm

100% correct.
I am currently been ‘airbrushed’
Just got back my section 7 report from CAFCAS. The bright spark CAFCAS worker even put in a comment say that my son said he felt like his step dad was his real dad.
The only reason my Son thinks that is because I have been stopped from seeing him for 2 years.
Thanks CAFCAS.
Ill just leave the pain right here.
For all to see.

I hope someone in court decides to use there brain tomorrow in the family court room.

Ive never experienced such blatent unchecked predudice as this.
why do lies have so much power ?
Aligations NEED TO BE SCRUTINISED.

Parental Alienation is horendous.

(*Comment edited – please see our moderation policy here).

JamesB - April 12, 2017 at 3:19pm

Good luck for court tomorrow. Let us know how it goes.

Judges are reasonable people.

Advice. Don’t get wound up by the other side (even if it means putting your fingers in your ears), wish someone had given me that advice.

Try and give some ideas on how to build a relationship with your children.

Last pointer. Everything needs to be in terms of the children, not, it would be better for me and the Mum if …, rather, it would be better for the children if …,

If the other side want to play hard status quo upsetting nonsense , say you are a good parent and is in interests of children to see both parents. Perhaps ask for every other weekend and half holidays. That’s what I got with a very high conflict case, and was the norm about 10 years ago, may have changed since then, perhaps ask a lawyer what is normal in no abuse high conflict cases. That is probably what the judge will decide before he sees the pantomime in action which can be the court case.

Re the attempting to airbrush the father and replace with step father, yep, seen than, have the scars from trying to maintain a father relationship from not living with them, a thankless task.

JamesB - April 12, 2017 at 3:32pm

Still, she can’t take that away from me, or their surnames, not unless I stop caring for them and I will not, a very intense and difficult issue and question you raise Yvie, I could go on and on about it but will not. The children do feel torn in two and in a way they are, these things work best if can do co operative parenting and reduce conflict as much as possible following separation. I have been trying for years and we can still barely look at each other. We are better than some though, and not as good as others who have been able to become friends with their exes following separation, and that has to be best, if you can manage it. Not possible to get them to be reasonable though. On the not slagging off ex thing, children will believe slander if it goes unchallenged, trick is to challenge it with the parent before it gets to that and to get her to not see you as a threat but a help as you both want the same thing which is the kids to be ok hopefully. Well, that’s how me and my ex progressed. If ex isn’t interested in the children as some aren’t then I have more sympathy and lack ideas beyond saying do the best you can with what you get with regards to the children and aim to build on it, even if its because the ex sees it as cheap babysitting work the angles. With re to unfounded allegations, ignore them and just say there has been no finding of fact on them and you are a good father and want to sort out a workable relationship with them. If they are seeking to find fact out on allegations I have no advice as I have fortunately not had to go down that road. Once my ex’s barrister tried but Judge said I don’t think we need to go down that road and would rather do something more productive with my afternoon, respect to her on that occasion. After the hearing she, Judge, came up to me and said, don’t make me regret not hearing that non mol occupation thing.

JamesB - April 12, 2017 at 3:41pm

p.s. I agree that PAS is hard, I had a degree of it with my case, can be harder than that, it is a bugger and does exist, I also agree Cafcass are useless. Still, the ray of light is that the Judge knows both those things and are on the whole decent and ok and will give the children contact if is in their interests and it is in their interests to see both parents. Trick is to get the ex to see that and not mention the new father or any animosity if judge sees bitterness or animosity from either side he or she will penalise that side. Perhaps suggest supporting the new relationship by offering to babysit so they can get out rest is an example of the type of thing which shows lack of animosity or acrimony. Do not mention finances either. Bringing back bad memories all of this have to go now.

JamesB - April 12, 2017 at 3:56pm

The point is, it is good for the kids and you to have contact with them. Miss the and you bit out from the court though as unfortunately the court don’t care about you.

Paul - April 12, 2017 at 10:27pm

Thank you for your advice.
Its very hard not to be bitter and angry when all the ex’s lies have been beleived out of hand. She stood infront of a court and lied and I priomptly received a conviction for harassment.
I appealed the conviction straight away and luckily there was a judge who was not an ideot. An I overturned my conviction.
But I was working as a security guard and I lost my job because of the rediculous conviction.
If i am to stand in front if a judge an say im not angry I would have to lie as badly as she has.
It would harm my souls and i would grind my teeth to dust.

The only qualification you need for winning a court case seems to be lying through your teeth. I starting to think that people in jail must be the most honest people on the planet.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 1:51pm

Well done on the appeal. Harrassment is a strange one, I think easy to convict on. Have heard professional lawyers being annoyed with large number of convictions for. Perhaps should be a FPN like a parking ticket rather than criminal conviction.

My ex tried this one with me. I read the CPS statement on it. It said that although there was enough evidence for a conviction it would not be in the public interest to prosecute.

I was trying to arrange contact. I was lucky to get a non feminist CPS person I suppose. Like you and your appeal judge maybe.

I used to believe in the law, before I saw how it is abused. Lawyers win or lose by getting away with lies or not. Best story in court wins. Best story of all is one that is true and sounds true, like my children enjoy and thrive seeing me. That saw the other side lose trying to deny contract and has seen me through the last 12 years. Now I still see them and contact them whenever.

My father didn’t want me staying in touch with my mum which stopped that for 10 years and makes it hard now. So PAS does exist. Trick is to get your ex to see the value in you seeing the children.

I’ve had enough bearing my soul and history on here for now though. Trying to help you and others. Can’t solve the world’s problems though, but do what I can. Like the Rag n bone man song I suppose. Perhaps it resonates which is why that was a hit. All the best. Let us know how you got on. Regards, JamesB.

Yvie - April 13, 2017 at 3:02pm

Unfortunately when there is a stepfather in the equation mothers sometimes see no value in the biological father.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 2:02pm

P.s. magistrates courts have over 95% conviction rate and play fast and lose with the law and the beyond reasonable doubt threshold which they ignore. Granted the convictions are minor, but given the police national database the repurcussions are major as you have seen. Perhaps not all convictions should be seen as major and move to graded convictions type like in the US I think. The FPN indicates a move to that. Also need to dna register all babies at birth for father and mother recognition and registering on the database to resolve crimes. I am on there for being arrested and no further action, NFA, and that is wrong. My ex and her new husband are on there for being arrested also I think, they should have been convicted of assault, I had ripped clothes and defence wounds and camera footage from their attack but proof threshold is higher for Mums thankfully as I would have them convicted then but thankfully not as still kids mum.

Glad the arrest stopped the assaults though, and me being arrested as I was there, that and me recording all risky situations on phone.

People should feel more engaged and respectful of the law though and we need better family and criminal law from what I have seen, and I’ve unfortunately seen quite a lot.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 2:08pm

I wouldn’t advise anyone who is not guilty to accept conviction of magistrates court, you were right to appeal. They are unpaid citizens, and are often duped by lawyers huffing and puffing and lies and acting, regardless of law or evidence.

Carol Gordon Ekster - April 13, 2017 at 5:49pm

I do believe children bear the brunt of before arguments and then the divorce. That’s why it’s so important to discuss the situation with them or get them the help they need to discuss it in a safe place. I taught elementary school for 35 years and felt children’s pain from divorce. That’s why I wrote the book about shared custody, WHERE AM I SLEEPING TONIGHT? (A Story of Divorce) Boulden Publishing, 2008. I believe it helps children feel they are not alone and it gives them hope. Bibliotherapy is powerful. Use it whenever you can.

Paul - April 13, 2017 at 7:13pm

Fantastic news.
I must have articulated my case for PAS well today.
I have been granted a final hearing. Which is probably the best result I could have got today.
The judge entasised that its not enough to say PAS is taking place.
(Then promptly did not give me a chance to say very much)
Its a very VERY difficult situation to be in. You have to listen to lies and nonsense without been invited to respond. I nearly exploded.
The CAFCAS worker say there and explaind how deeply fearful the kids were and they were living in terror of me.
Also stated that my son thought ofmy exs new partner as more of a father.

Who deserves to here that ?
My heart is in tatters.

However after he finished I got the chance to speak.
I simply said “Everything the CAFCAS worker has just said is entirely consistant with Parental Alienation.”
Thank god i was thinking clearly.

Her soliciter tryed arguing that I have been harassing her and the court case was simply an extention of the harassment.
I have heard of this defence before.
But I made it clear at the start that I overturned my harassment case and the crown court overturned it in ten minutes. (So that defense was not really water tight.)
He also said i havent seen the kids for 2 years (not out of choice) the kids were happy as they were and were nearly old enough to make their own choice. Trying to get the case thrown out quickly.
Also consistant with an Alienating parent 🙂 lol

But I get a chance to prove alienation is taking place.
I cant let all those fathers down.
I am smart enough I can do it 🙂

If anyone has contact details for a solicitor nearby who has successfully proven Alienation has taken place.
That would be amazing.
(*Some details removed by the moderators)

Cameron Paterson - April 13, 2017 at 7:43pm

That’s good news Paul. But please don’t name the people involved in your case on a public website like this.
I don’t know if you are aware but we have an office relatively close by. See here for contact details: http://www.stowefamilylaw.co.uk

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 9:15pm

I don’t think magistrates are paid, but I’m not sure. I’ll have to look it up to check that.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 9:26pm

Like the judge says… PAS, so what.

Follow on point is to make some proposals for reestablish mentioned of contact. Perhaps start with indirect contact, then supervised, then once a month, then once a fortnight. Then once a week.

Or… Ask her barrister and her outside and inside the courtroom for their suggestions. Perhaps even settle outside as will cost them money to go to court and lose with the cap hand they have. Especially if, like today, you keep calm and focused, which was excellently done by the way. Proud of you on behalf of the non resident parents.

I don’t think your ex has a case to be honest, coming out with that controlling behaviour bollocks. I had that thrown at me and half believed it coming from a QC. It was not true though. Is good for kids and fathers to be in each others lives. All the best, good luck. Keep us posted. May email you. Well done.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 9:32pm

Mat be worth running your ideas for reestablish mentioned of contact by a lawyer. Recommend that you do. I am not a lawyer and don’t know the details of the case. Distance between homes etc. Common thing they throw at you is also that your residence isn’t suited for contact. Be v careful with cafcass and lawyers though, they are not for you but for the establishment. Still, you can’t fight the establishment so try to do a deal and look reasonable, even if not possible, that will go in your favour with the outcome received at the end. I hate the system for doing this (2 years without contact) thing and wish you well.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 9:40pm

Show your reasonable proposal letters in the bundle to the judge at final hearing. Think some lawyers do free one hour and half hour consultations. I did all the ones near where I live, in the South, but did go to Uni up North.

That lawyers try and muddy the waters and wind up the parents is a real shit system. It’s why lawyers have lawyers, as it’s reasonable to get emotional and lose focus at these times. You did very well not to. Perhaps I should write a book on how to avoid lawyers fees and traps when separating or divorcing or getting together. Better than the pick up books and artists which I find distasteful. Perhaps we should arrange our children’s marriages like Queen Victoria.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 9:48pm

When the QC said I was controlling the Judge put it to me , to which I said it was her application. That stopped that one.

Like UB petitions. They have some standard ideas. Like control or too much sex or too little sex , or leading separate lives and stuff. Like finances claiming client is getting too old to earn much etc. I have picked up quite a lot from the (between 50 and 100 times) I have unfortunately had to be in court, family and criminal also. Trying to help others by saying what I have seen and perhaps excise my ptsd at the same time. Those courts are not all open as they should be though.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 9:56pm

Did you have McKensie friend or other help like Families Need Father’s or something? I think some help would be useful to you. Gap in the market there John and Marilyn I suggest. I’d come if you pay my expenses. Have done it before. I would prefer you go to a solicitor though. Probably cost you a grand for a barrister direct Marilyn, suggest you help this guy with how he can do that please. Or you Google it. Suggest you try and settle it out of court with a letter or two or three before though but have barrister if doesn’t settle.

Another criticism of the law is it is so expensive.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 9:57pm

If you do get to see the kids, don’t mess it up. Think you are on your way there. Good luck to you and them.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 10:04pm

If there’s no evidence against you then the barrister could be Laurence Olivier and not win. You lose if you lose your temper. It sucks but that’s the way it is with no evidence. They try and make evidence where they can but you are right there is none as has been no contact. As all is words from her which is not enough without a conviction or something. Also know burden of proof is on the balance of probability in these places rather than beyond reasonable doubt. OK you prove PAS. You need another reason for your case. I hope and think you are requesting contact. Just thinking of the Judges comment. You need to show how and why contact would work for the kids.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 10:09pm

We’re some of my applications for court vexatious or controlling even a little bit? No. John tells us that they are but that’s his prejudice against people like me had it with people like him and most judges who are unfortunately like him (especially the older ones). They blame the applications for their inability to settle these matters. You may be in for more hearings trying to get enforcement. Another reason to try and get a consent order or other agreement out of court she will stick to as court will reduce rather than enforce contact order. Sucks that and is not good and needs improving that please.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 10:15pm

Advise you to take someone to court with you to help you next time. Preferably someone nice and calm and personable. Like me? Maybe. Like Marilyn, almost certainly. But you probably couldn’t afford her. Don’t think I could ;-).

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 10:22pm

Court is looking for some good ideas and plans and proposals from you for the future, not just about the past. Hense the Judges comment. Think I and judge have said it enough now. Hope you do well and are a good Dad to your children in future. Society needs Dad’s and families need fathers and step fathers don’t count. Unless Dad is dead or present or not a good Dad.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 10:28pm

P.s. her application was to reduce contact order in response to me trying to enforce it. Was parially successful at final hearing. She got the order I got her to stick to it. Win win? No. Best I could get and not good enough.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 10:32pm

P.s. next, you will need to be supportive of your ex and her new partnership. Yes, really. Show willingness to be cooperative and supportive of her and him for the children’s sake, And actually mean it. Then you get the best you can from the mess that is the E and W family court system.

JamesB - April 13, 2017 at 10:36pm

If you lose your patience or temper you lose. One deep breath from me was enough in one of my hearings. Think of Farage through the years sitting through the names he was called. Ian Paisley also. Other role models for this welcome. They mocked Jesus too. Easter weekend. Couldn’t resist it. Happy Easter everyone.

Paul - April 14, 2017 at 8:18am

Thank you Cameron,
I was a bit excitable and forgot not to put names in.
I feel like I have been set upto fail though.
I have been given 20 days to PROVE ‘Alienation’ has taken place.
A condition not widely accepted in UK law.
It can be done. There is enough evidence in my case. What is the threash hold for such evidence ? What evidence is conclusive in an alienation case?
Im not qualified to say my kids are suffering from. PAS i would need the testomony of an expert witness (psyciatrist) to speak to them. That cannot be arranged in 20 days.
The judge recomended I get a soliciter for the final hearing. But because I successfully represented myself against harassment soliciters do not have an open door to me at the moment.
I hate having an advocate anyway.
I am capable of articulating myself.
Also my case is two years old with many twists and turns. An advocate would not be able to respond to questioning as well as I could. Im not sure i would have enough time to bring a soliciter upto speed.
Ill be lucky to get an appointment in 20 days.
If they would just let me ‘SPEAK’ lol
How do people make judgements without letting people speak ? – its crazy.

What I need is to know what evidence is acceptible and how to present it. So judges will listen.
I assume your practice will not open till Tuesday. I will give you a call.

Kind Regards

Paul

Cameron Paterson - April 14, 2017 at 11:00am

Hi Paul – yes, that’s right. Please note that I am not a solicitor myself so cannot promise that we will be able to help in your particular case. But we do have some very experienced family solicitors.
I have removed some of the details from your recent comments to ensure that your case is properly anonymised on here. That includes your surname and your email address. In relation to the latter, we’ll be happy forward any useful messages on to you.

Paul - April 14, 2017 at 8:30am

Its also worth mentioning that a MASSIVE double standard id been enforced here.
My expartner has been making accusations of domestic abuse, labeling me a bully and causing harassment for TWO YEARS. She has made accusations to the police, to social services, to CAFCAS and in court.
Not ONCE has ANYONE asked her to PROVE any of those things. Other than the childrens testimony (which we know is at best an over reaction and at worst not true) she has no evidence of this because its entirely ficticious.
I say alienation has taken place and all a sudden I have to be a detective and provide indepth evidence of a psycological condition to make that arguement.
This is a CLEAR double standard been enforced.

Yvie - April 14, 2017 at 9:05am

Well done Paul for surviving your ordeal and managing to highlight parental alienation. I note your comment about your children looking on their stepfather as more of a father and I can entirely empathise with you, as undoubtedly there are many mothers who re-marry and would prefer to move on with their new partners. They seem to have no conscience about airbrushing the biological fathers out of the lives of their children, and sometimes the alienation can be so subtle that even those around the alienator have no idea that there is a malign influence, and assume that the fault lies entirely with the father. More practitioners who are qualified in identifying and dealing with alienation should be appointed to the family courts.

JamesB - April 14, 2017 at 12:21pm

If you prove PAS – perhaps to indicate that the difficulties with maintaining a relationship are not your fault – perhaps you could suggest contract without conflict ongoing. Perhaps do the handovers at a contact centre. Or even supervised contact there.

I’m not sure criticising and proving PAS case will help you get contact. Better to show how can reestablish seeing your children.

I tried the PAS line. Judge wasn’t interested. They will always support the children and do not see PAS as abuse even though it is. In extreme denial of contact cases such as yours though will they do anything about it? I think you need a solicitor. I don’t have much faith in them v an obstructive parent denying contact.

A prime example of why the courts should be open to the public. So many give up on contact or rely on what resident parent offers as courts are so bad about enforcement. Of applications for enforcement 1 percent are successful. Better to try and appeal to exes better nature towards her children. If there is not any then is uphill struggle.

JamesB - April 14, 2017 at 12:28pm

contact not contract, was a typo.

JamesB - April 14, 2017 at 1:05pm

My advice is to keep going to court and being thick skinned. You did well there. I still have PTSD from the names I was called by everyone for doing so which is why your case reminds me of that. To be positive. Judges will try and give both parents contact. It’s a bit weak as they struggle and may have to keep going as I did and I can see why so many don’t like to face the abuse the likes of John Bolch and others dish at us for keeping going, calling us abusers control freaks, etc keep going and keep calm and get some help as the judge, was it a he or she? (Not relevant, I’m just interested in that and how old they were. I found old male judges not as good as younger judges of either sex) said, it’s not them but the law that is the problem.

Cameron Paterson - April 14, 2017 at 4:06pm

John Bolch dishes out abuse James? Really?

JamesB - April 15, 2017 at 12:18am

Yes, all that he comes out with about non resident fathers being their own worst enemies in court who according to him are pure and fair and deal with circumstances appropriately.

JamesB - April 14, 2017 at 1:07pm

If you can’t get help, keep going, keep thick skin and focused and don’t miss any appointments or you will lose all you gain through any missed appointments where pwc would not . Another example of the bias. Judges need to be pushed to do the right thing. We need in built child advocates as cafcass are not good still that’s another related matter.

Yvie - April 14, 2017 at 2:31pm

Karen Woodall from the Family Separation Clinic is an experienced practitioner in paental alienation and has had a lot of success.. It may be helpful to contact the Family Separation Clinic and obtain their thoughts on your situation. Best of luck.

Paul - April 14, 2017 at 5:46pm

Once again thanks for your kind words and advice. I will post again when I decide to make a move. I have ideas on how to procceed. But I will take advice this time.
So far my ex has turned up with three differnt solicitors. First one was lightweight at best. Technically he beat me.
Realistically. “i stood in the court and pointed out that to prove a case of harrassment you need to prove a course of conduct.”
But the court was inexplicably hostile towards me I assume for arrigantly defending myself. Also i spoke to the duty soliciter before I went in. He said the Judge was a hard line femanist. Which i thought was extreamly inappropriate.
Anyway they ignored law even though I spelt it out and I got convicted of harassment.
Second Soliciter (appeal at crown court) was great. Judge gave him a 10 minute adjurnment to prove a course of conduct. (Got told off by judge for using the americanism reccess. Been watching ally McBeal lol) he came back and desided not to contest.
Shook my hand at the end an I think he would have bought me a drink if I saw him later lol dont know what my ex said to him but i dont think he liked her.

The solicitor yesterday used the defence that the case was an extention of harrasment. When you think about it was a bit of a d*** move considering i already said i overturned the harassment case in ten minutes in the crown court.
Im sure he had just googled the ‘extention of harassment’ defence which is a bit of a trend. An as we know is bullshit. An an attempt at double jepordy. Throwing something back at you that you have already been exonerated for reaks of desperation.

So in all honesty so far its Paul 2 Soliciters 1 and their goal was way off side. An to be honest I have never felt out of my depth.

Oh yeh. An im a rediculously poor person thanks to CSA.

Family have offered to pay for representation. Thats no problem. But i really dont think I could get a soliciter upto speed in 20 days. Id be lucky to get an appointment. 16 days minus tge bank hol weekend.

JamesB - April 15, 2017 at 10:41am

Well done. What is the final hearing in 20 days about?

It sounds like to prove you are not a bad person and to prove PAS. If that is it, then I don’t see the point of proving that to a closed court. Unless you want to prove a point or her back in which case I would think it a waste of time.

If it is to get to see your children, which it probably is, then I wish you well and think that is a very good reason. It’s just you are talking about the Harrassment a lot. PAS is a valid point but you need to move towards parallel and then cooperative parenting and have some good ideas on future relationships and progress with the children which is why I say you need a bit of help as you say nothing on that. Speaking from experience the CSA/cmec/cms/cm options don’t help and sick also I agree.

JamesB - April 15, 2017 at 10:55am

P.s. After thinking about it, you are right to call them the CSA ongoing. I will do so from now on and advise everyone else to do so. They are what they are, call a spade a spade, and are owed no favours as their premise and core raid on deter (promote feminism and fatherlessness by punitive taxing men for being fathers and rewarding women for behaving badly to their men) is wrong.

Paul - April 16, 2017 at 6:29am

The CSA are 100% wrong. I agree. But its difficult to argue why taxpayers have to pickup the bill to raise your kids.
Thats also wrong. MPs are answerable to taxpayers so until a solution is offered which means taxpayers do not foot the bill for your kids then MP’s will not back down from it.

I have a folder 3” thick of CSA mistakes and miscalculations. I have been bullied threatened and robbed by them.
After doing a ‘falkirk’ with one of my earlier claims. (Sweeping it under the carpet)
I have now been placed on this new scam called cms.
Anything I receive now that I don’t like goes directly to my MP with instructions on how I want it resolved.
If MPs want these rogues working for the taxpayer then they can sort it out.

I have told my MP i will not share any information with them over the phone without a witness. All corrispondance MUST be in writting so I have complete corrispondance record.
You have legal right to privacy protected in law. You are under no obligations to share personal details with anyone.
The next time they ask you to answer security questions just say ”no thank you, i don’t know who you are.”
They won’t like it.

I HIGHLY recomend everyone involved with them does the same.

JamesB - April 15, 2017 at 12:07pm

Raison d’etre becomes raid on deter with autocorrect. We don’t have good autocorrection sometimes also in this country.

Paul - April 16, 2017 at 6:01am

Thats the biggest problem. Courts assume you can move on toward co-opperative parenting. It takes two parents to be co-opperative.
I have approached this from the start wishing to be amicable and reasonable.
She has done everything to distroy any chance of that.

The most likely out come is they will ignore me the reasonable amicable parent. An award custody to my ex who has taken every oppertunity to be unreasonable.

When PAS is taking place you cannot reach a co-opperative state.

JamesB - April 20, 2017 at 7:26pm

I agree. The court works on trying to do reasonable deals with reasonable people. If one is not, they have no teeth. I remember a look from a judge at one of my enforcement hearings after he just said he was adjourning it for another time to see how contact goes, again, was like, well, I know this is wrong, but its the way it is.

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