Marilyn Stowe Blog

Gavin wilson on January 10, 2012 at 12:29 pm

I am trying to get an unullment of my marraige,
We were married in South Africa, a south African Lwyer agreed the marraige was not legal,there was no witnesses there.
My x lives in Spain
, I was quoted Around £1000.00 to have this marraige annulled,now three years later and having spent over £5000.00 this marraige has still not been annulled
What should I do? every time I contact the lawyer in South Africa all they seem to do is ask for more money

teresa on January 10, 2012 at 12:32 pm

I married in may 2005, and left in 2006. We married in Italy. Not been together and would like a divorce but don’t know where to start. I only have a copy of the certification.

DT in Cheshire on January 11, 2012 at 3:00 am

Hi Marilyn

I watched ‘This Morning’ this evening, and I think some really interesting points were made.

The subject of divorce and settlements, as well as being highly contentious, is greatly misunderstood by many people, and understandably so, as there are so many variables and many aspects (too numerous to list), to take into account.

However, what surprised me is still how many people consider a ‘D.I.Y.’ divorce as a viable option. Furthermore, it’s often the more dominant party who advocates it to the more vulnerable!

What’s more, your dental analogy hit the nail on the head! We pay plumbers and electricians because we want a proper job doing and so why is paying a solicitor for expert advice on such a complex matter any different? It isn’t.

Yes, some solicitors are better than others, however this can be said of every profession.

Marilyn Stowe on January 11, 2012 at 7:40 am

Hi DT
Thanks for the comments. It was quite shocking because a lot of people who e mailed in had never taken legal advice or didn’t intend to at all and thought that by going to a CAB for basic information they would be fine.
However as you know, the legal process is tricky and complex, people do have rights that may entitle them to something completely different from what they wrongly believe to be the case, as they don’t know the law because they aren’t trained! How can they possibly go through a legal process without advice?
Then when they predictably hit problems and don’t know what to do it gets even worse,
I agree that access to justice is tougher than ever because of cuts, but I’m also sure every family lawyer is now doing more work pro bono than ever before.
I am pretty sure everyone can see a solicitor before starting a divorce and if they don’t it’s foolhardy in the extreme. You only get one ‘go’ at this and it has to be right first time or it could literally mean a lot of misery afterwards.
Marilyn

Judy Park on January 11, 2012 at 9:14 am

Good to see you on the clip from This Morning. Couldn’t watch you ‘live’ because mediating in wet and windy Blackpool. Whilst I agree that good legal advice is essential I was disappointed not to hear any mention of mediation, particularly for the lady who phoned in hoping to have an ‘amicable’ divorce.
Any chance you could use the word mediation in your next interview.?
Good Luck in your new venture in London. I’m sure it will be very successful.

Marilyn Stowe on January 12, 2012 at 9:02 am

Hi Judy
Before I replied to you I wanted to see the tape and check what was said because I couldn’t remember!
There were no calls for the lady from Relate. There were a lot of calls about the legal side, people who were getting stuck in the process,so the discussion was intentionally focussed on the law.
I am fully in agreement with you about the benefits of mediation and other forms of ADR and it is firmly on my radar.
Many thanks for your comments.
Marilyn

Steve on January 14, 2012 at 7:05 am

DT – A DIY divorce is a viable option and sites such as wikivorce are an invaluable site. My advice is to do your research and found out the options and don’t get “sucked in” by “cost build’ solictors whose only interest is to take the money for minimal effort

Marilyn Stowe on January 14, 2012 at 8:22 am

Steve
Again the medical analogy. You can try and self diagnose on line. The chances are you will get it wrong. It’s the same with the law. Websites can only ever be a guide. They are no substitute for personal tailor made advice. After that it’s up to you. Pull your own tooth out, treat your own medical condition, do your own divorce. It’s your choice and as you only get one go at each, you better be sure of what you are doing and that you are doing it right.
Best wishes
Marilyn

DT in Cheshire on January 14, 2012 at 11:24 am

Good Morning Steve

Thank you for reading and responding to my post.

While procedurally, a D.I.Y. divorce may be viable, how is a non-expert going to ensure that an equitable settlement is reached, especially with the vast raft of variables to take into consideration?

My biggest concern (as I mention previously on 11.01.12.), is a dominant party advocating a D.I.Y. divorce to a vulnerable party; and it IS usually this way around.

The vulnerable party may have had years of domestic abuse, and it is unlikely that a fair settlement will be reached, and even if, in the unlikely event, a fair settlement were to be reached, how would one know if it is equitable?

I know that there is a lot of information available on the net, but without being an expert, how do you know that you are applying the right set of information to your unique set of circumstances? You could get it horrible wrong. In effect, it’s like borrowing somebody else’s antibiotics in the hope that they’ll shift your cough as they both sound similar.

DT

Marilyn Stowe on January 14, 2012 at 12:06 pm

All:-
Leading on from this is the question of how you find a good solicitor? How do you know if one is good for the job?
The lady from Relate said she ‘chooses’ a solicitor but didn’t explain on what basis.
I think it’s pretty straightforward. Family lawyers do not need to obtain additional qualifications. Those who do want to demonstrate their abilities.
So, if the case is very complicated indeed, then a Fellow of the International Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers should be consulted. These lawyers: barristers and solicitors are considered to be the very best in their own country and being elected a Fellow speaks for itself.
If the case is complicated then both the Law Society Family Law Panel and Resolution run advanced accreditation schemes and membership of the advanced tier of either, is hard to get and again, speaks for itself.
If the case is more moderate membership of the Law Society’s Family Law Panel first tier will be absolutely fine because in order to be accredited these solicitors have also had to jump through several hoops.
I was the first Chief Assessor of the Law Society’s Family Law Panel for nearly seven years until 2005 and I know how difficult it is to obtain accreditation at both levels. In fact last year I set some of the exams for the Advanced level and the standard is still as exacting as it was.
So given that there are excellent lawyers, solicitors and barristers who voluntarily are prepared to demonstrate skills to a high standard there should be no reluctance by anyone to obtain at the very least, basic advice.
Marilyn.

Steve on January 15, 2012 at 5:28 am

I totally agree, basic advice should always be sought, unfortunately with many solicitors content only on cost building then many cannot afford full time services. Indeed Form E, the cornerstone of all proceedings takes only 30 mins or so to complete in many cases, but yet most solicitors take 4 hours plus to check. 4 hours @ 250+ an hour is a significant cost for anyone.

Marilyn Stowe on January 15, 2012 at 2:10 pm

Steve:-
30 mins to complete a Form E? The Form E is intended to be a full frank and honest picture of a person’s entire financial position and it should exhibit all the relevant documentation to prove it.
It also gives that person an opportunity to deal with the various relevant factors of Section 25 Mateimonial Causes Act 1973.
It therefore all depends on the amount of information that is being given and the extent to which a case is being argued. Frequently insufficient, incomplete, wrong or misleading information is supplied and the arguments which can be made out in the Form E are ignored or again may be wrong, incomplete or misleading.
A Form E as you imply is arguably the most critical document
in the entire financial process and in view of all the above, and with the best will in the world I would be very worried if it could be fully complete and ready to be sworn in just 30 minutes in any case at all!
Regards
Marilyn

Steve on January 15, 2012 at 6:56 pm

Form E took me 30 mins to complete and was relatively simple.

Suzie Leagrave on January 18, 2012 at 8:39 pm

Hi

There’s something that’s slightly disturbed me about the discussion, and it is the money issue.

With all due respect to Marilyn, who sound like a very learned lawyer, I felt that your approach and response to the money issue was completely out of touch.

I can totally sympathise with the situation of the caller who couldn’t afford a divorce. I’m in the same situation, and it is a reality of life to many individuals in this country. I know that as a highly paid lawyer you can’t understand what it means to not have ANY spare money (no matter how important it is), but it’s my life, and Rachel’s, and tens of thousands of others.

And your comments about pulling your tooth out are similarly out of touch, because for all medical needs we got something in this country that’s called the NHS (you and your private health schemes might have not heard of it), but it provides us mortals with those necessary services free of charge precisely because they are vital.

Oh, and thank you to Steve; Wikivorce is not just a brilliant source of information, they also provide free advice and offer a somewhat affordable divorce ‘package’ for just £179. Well done.

Marilyn Stowe on January 18, 2012 at 10:05 pm

Suzie
Thanks very much for your comment. I do not know you but I assure you, I am far from out of touch. I began my career working alone in a converted cobblers shop in a far from salubrious part of Leeds, in what then passed for a lawyer’s office, helping mostly women who had been battered by their husbands, all work done on legal aid.
 One of my first successes as a trainee was to obtain a divorce for a woman on legal aid who had been advised by her previous solicitor she had no grounds to proceed within three years when the law was different to today. I thought and acted differently because I thought there was far more to her case than she had dared tell her male lawyer and I was right. She was going through appalling hardships she had kept from him but told me.
 Legal aid and getting the right result for my client was a huge part of my practice and today when I am honoured to head the largest stand alone family law firm in the country, it still is:- by providing free advice in our legal clinics, acting pro bono in even hopeless cases where others have refused. 
And the highlight of my career without a shadow of a doubt is the work I did which resulted in the freeing of the late Sally Clark, the solicitor, from two life sentences for the murder of her children:- all work was done in my spare time, and all work was entirely free of charge.
I hope you will understand I have a passion for justice and above all, a passion for seeing things done correctly for my clients, according to the law.
That is why I am so concerned about people who choose not to take legal advice when they can do so, who think by saving money they can simply rely instead on what they read on the web, and that is the answer for them. I disagree.
Even today people can get free legal advice. The very poorest people do qualify for legal aid, others can take advantage of free schemes offered by many firms throughout the country. Others who have homes, savings, pensions, one or two incomes to share out, will sensibly choose to pay a reasonable rate for their advice so they understand in this vital, one off procedure exactly where they stand, what are their rights, entitlements obligations and duties. There are different ways of paying bills, without hardship, all of which solicitors will happily discuss.
Finally, those who choose to put their head in the sand, who think they know it all, by their ignorance of the law and refusal to consider their own position, or those who just want an end to it as fast as possible, and are prepared to believe everything they are told without subjecting it to professional scrutiny, they can be literally heading for a lifetime of misery and by the time they realise this, it is simply too late to help.
Sincerely
Marilyn
PS if you would like an appointment to discuss your divorce with me, free of charge, by telephone or in the office please call Morna Rose on 01423 532600 to arrange.

Caroline Nolan on January 21, 2012 at 1:33 am

Dear Marilyn, I have just stumbled across your website, and interview, ten years after my divorce and totally agree with you comments about getting legal advice. I really wished that I had sought legal advice when we divorced.

We had no assets and I naively believed that we would be able to work together for the best interests of our children in the future even though he left when I was pregnant with our third child. Although, I would consider myself to be quite a strong person I felt at the time that as I was living in a foreign country (Australia) with very, very young children and no family support that had I couldn’t risk upsetting my ex-husband because I would not have been able to cope on my own. So thinking he would turn nasty if I did, I didn’t get advice and agreed to a cheap divorce in a magistrates court. Big mistake!

After years of fighting about we are now in the process of going back to the courts to try to organise a proper parenting plan for our children that includes plans for the school holidays, secondary schooling fees, orthondicts treament costs, co-curricular activity costs and so on. This time, I have sought advice with legal advice even if it has, as predicted, meant that I have a very angry ex-husband. I have had no real support financial or otherwise for many years anyway.

I think my children would have been better supported financially and they would not have had to face the trauma of years of conflict if we had done this properly in the first place.

If you have children then it your duty as a parent to get legal advice and get as many things settled as possible at the start. It may be messy at the start but much better in the long run. Also if you plan to have kids and like living in the UK then stay in the UK!

Caroline

Steve on January 21, 2012 at 6:01 am

Hi

i totally agree legal advice should always be sought,however there are elements which a simple lay person can do themselves. With the average cost of a divorce approaching 13k plus it is expensive using solicitors all the way, when there is so much an individual can do. The issue with free consultations often offered is that often you never get he answer you require,often the 30mins or 6o mins appointment is taken up with talking re the background of the case and you often have to return for another appointment to discuss the issues you had hoped to discuss at the time of the free consultations and then a fe is charged.

Reviewing my own experiences, yes initial consultation should be sought, but generally much of the work involved can be done by a layperson with ad hoc advice from a professional person

Afterall you do not go to the dentist to brush your teeth twice a day or a mechanic to fill you car up with petrol everytime.

Steve

Stuart on February 1, 2012 at 1:25 pm

I have filed for divorce and it has just been heard in court and now my ex wife who admitted adultry and has lived with this guy for over 1 year now wants to claim 1000 pounds for every year she was married to me also wants fifty percent of my property in ghana where I work and live, can she do this
please I need help.

Regards

Stuart

Christine Devlin on February 3, 2012 at 11:58 pm

Hi, I only seen parts of your interview on This Morning as I work in a hospital and, could only catch snippets, and, I am hoping you can help us with advice please. We are at our wits end. Two of our grandchildren have been taken into care through no fault of our own. My grandson Kieran who i is 12 has behavioural problems and, the social services have lied to him on many occasions. Kieran has said things that the social services had told them that is totally untrue. My grand daughter Scarlett (who is Kierans young sister) she is 20 months old, and, Social services have decided that she has to go to her Father who has never been in her life at all till she was taken into care and, he has a son he has never seen in 5 years . Its a long story there is more please see if you can help….. please

Marilyn Stowe on February 5, 2012 at 12:33 pm

Hi Christine
You are certainly entitled to consider a number of options such as residence and contact and apply to the court.
Because there are care proceedings, this area is called Public Law and we do not work in this field. You need a specialist Child care lawyer to advise you further. You can obtain the details of good child care lawyers in your area from the Law Society because they will be members of the Child Care Panel.
I hope you succeed.
Best wishes
Marilyn