How to Apply for a Non-Molestation Order.

Last week, a post by Nastassia Burton set out the eligibility criteria for applying for an occupation order, and the application process. This follow-up post focuses upon non-molestation orders, and what happens if a non-molestation order or an occupation order is breached.

Protection against domestic abuse is provided under Part IV of the Family Law Act 1996 (FLA 1996). The types of orders available fall into two categories: occupation orders and non-molestation orders. As previously detailed, an occupation order is an order from the court which excludes a party from occupying the home. If necessary, it can extend to excluding the abuser from a specified perimeter around the home.

A non-molestation order is for the protection of parties or any children. It can be applied for by an associated person, as detailed below. Occupation orders and non-molestation orders are traditionally regarded as draconian remedies, and there are stringent rules as to when they can be used. Both types of order can be made within family proceedings or as free standing applications.

Who can apply?

Like occupation orders, non-molestation orders can be applied for by associated persons. As in cases relating to occupation orders, applicants are generally spouses and cohabitants. Section 62(3) of the Family Law Act 1996 states that a person is associated with another if:

  • They are or have been married to each other or have been civil partners
  • They are cohabitants or former cohabitants
  • They live or have lived in the same household for a reason other than one of them being the other’s employee, tenant, lodger or boarder
  • They are relatives – this includes grandparents, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, cousins, step-parents and step-children
  • They have agreed to marry or enter into a civil partnership or they have or have had an intimate personal relationship which was of significant duration
  • In relation to a child, they are both parents or have or have had parental responsibility (where a child has been adopted or freed for adoption, two people will be associated if one is the natural parent and the other is the child or adoptive parent of the child)
  • They are parties to the same family proceedings (other than proceedings under Part IV of FLA 1996)

Clearly the criteria offer protection to a large and diverse group, because the victims of domestic violence are not restricted to current spouses and cohabitants. In cases involving persons who are not associated, protection may be gained from an injunction under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. (A suitable subject, perhaps, for a subsequent post?)

Non-Molestation Orders

When an application for a non-molestation order is successful, the court can order that the respondent does not molest the applicant or a child.

The term molestation is not defined in statute – a deliberate omission, following a recommendation from the Law Commission, so as not to enable respondents to exploit a loophole. Molestation covers not only violence or the threat of violence but encompasses any kind of harassing behaviour. This can include shouting at the applicant, sending abusive letters and constantly calling the applicant. The list is lengthy. The lack of definition can cause difficulties at times but it seems right that it was not defined; otherwise, it would be impossible to cover every instance in which a non-molestation order could and should protect the applicant.

When the court is deciding whether or not to make a non-molestation order, it must consider all the circumstances of the case including the need to secure the health, safety and wellbeing of the applicant and any relevant child. When a non-molestation order is made, it can be for a specified period or until further order of the court.

Ex-Parte or On Notice?

Applications for occupation orders and non-molestation orders can be made either ex-parte or on notice – meaning that an application can be made either with or without the respondent’s knowledge. If an applicant is in immediate danger, the application can be made to provide them with protection more quickly than if the application were made on notice. If an ex-parte application order is granted, it will not become effective until it has been served upon the respondent. This is to ensure that a respondent does not unknowingly breach a court order. There will also have to be a return date hearing with both parties present, to allow the respondent to raise an argument against the order being made.

In practice it is easier to get a non-molestation order on an ex parte basis than it is an occupation order. However the court will list hearings for non-molestation orders and occupation orders as quickly as possible, usually within a few days.

Breach of an Occupation Order or Non-Molestation Order

The breach of a non-molestation order is a criminal offence, punishable by up to five years in prison. If a respondent breaches an order then he or she will be arrested, and can be charged and brought before a criminal court. The Crown Prosecution Service is responsible for prosecuting a breach, and the solicitor that made the application on behalf of the respondent would not play a part in the prosecution.

The breach of an occupation order is not a criminal offence, but a power of arrest can be attached to one or more of the provisions of the order. The court will attach a power of arrest if it appears to them that the respondent has used violence or threatened to use violence towards the applicant. The penalty for breaching an occupation order is punishable by up to two years in prison or a fine of up to £5,000.

If a power of arrest is not attached to the order, the applicant may have to apply to the court for a warrant of arrest. The applicant will have to give evidence and satisfy the court that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the respondent has breached the order.

Is a court order sufficient protection?

Just because an order has been made, one should not assume that the applicant is completely protected. Domestic abuse is a serious issue, especially when there are incidents of physical violence. A court order can be a deterrent for the respondent but unfortunately, if the respondent is going to be violent towards the applicant a court order will not necessarily make them think twice about it.

If you are reading this post because you believe that you are in immediate danger, or you feel threatened, then you should call the police immediately. Only then should you contact a solicitor to advise on whether you can make an application under the above provisions.

 

125 comments

JamesB - June 6, 2012 at 4:42pm

This can include shouting at the applicant, sending abusive letters and constantly calling the applicant, or even just being alive.

Iwanttobefree - August 16, 2016 at 8:25pm

Judge refused my occ and non mol app today because not enough notice had been given to my gorgeous ex who’s bail conditions end this friday. Have to go back to court but WITH my gorgeous ex
tomorrow – can’t wait to see him again….

Andrew - August 17, 2016 at 9:40am

So both sides have a right to be heard and to proper notice . . .

Kim - September 24, 2016 at 10:35am

I feel for you. Particularly as I have recently been discovering that a Thai man I was divorced from in 1979, has been using various different people in my life, for years, up until recently, like work colleagues, quasi friends, even boyfriends to spy on me, I have even had a case recently, where because I saw him in a town near me, I decided to get a new copy of my divorce certificate from the PRFD. (Largely because he had a history of instability and stalking in 1978/9, and I had just separate from my second husband, e.g The first husband, had stalked me for months after I left the marital home, and broken into my place of work, and friends homes, imprisoned me and beaten me up, on one occasion, in front of a girl friend’s father, the Police had been called, again, is time to get me released, and he had been caught “peeping” at my man friend and I one night.)
Oh and we had known each other for something less than 8 months, at that time, and there was NO great romance, and no children, to argue over, and he was 10 years older than me, and I was just 20 years old. Very cynical planned threatening and controlling behaviour patterns.
So, I thought that a copy of my divorce would be a good thing…
I received it, and was relieved.
In 2012, I was getting divorced from my second husband, in NZ, we had been living in NZ, for a number of years, with my daughter, born, in 1989, 10 years after my 1979, divorce. When a NZ family law barrister, pointed out that my PRFD transcript copy of my 1979 divorce certificate, had a typo, a letter in my surname was missing, and that this omission might constitute a problem, for me.
I literally had not noticed, you see what you expect to see.
And she went on to say, that if I had been married, in all my proper name, but divorced with the typo error name, then I might not be divorced at all.
Which of course would make a divorce from my NZ husband unnecessary, as we would be perceived not to be legally married.
My ex in NZ, had the copy of my divorce, that we used when we married, complete with all the letters, in my surname, which indeed was the case, with all the original divorce paperwork, his new partner, ‘ made him ‘, give me the 1996 transcript divorce certificate, that I alone had bought, in 1996. Thankfully, although I had the original paperwork from my mother’s home in Devon.
Interestingly the house had been ransacked after her ‘death’?, all paperwork turned upside down, as if someone had been searching for something, and that had occurred shortly after I had left for NZ, also interestingly, a lot of mum’s financial paperwork had gone missing.
A woman neighbour said she hadn’t made the mess, and seemed aghast when I retrieved my divorce paperwork, from a drawer that only I knew about, asking me where I had produced it from, I pointed the drawer out to her.
The drawer, contained a few other things of no apparent financial value, except Polly Peck share certificates, that had collapsed, when the company liquidated itself, in 1992, I think.
I felt at the time that this woman had been looking for my divorce paperwork… She had been working as a Magistrate, and was an English, Martin, however a local lawyer named Sarla Ann Bhansali had worked for a local law firm, Hollinsheads, she had married a Martin, and I think that she had taken him to Court for abuse and won, but I met a legal secretary at a firm that superseded Hollinsheads, in 2009/10, she was called Bhansali, and was petite and very Indian, by colouring, pretty, but she did not have blue eyes, or a pale skin, not at all like the woman Sarah Martin I met as proposed to be my mother’s neighbour, who had lived at Briar Cottage, in is village.
The lawyer Sarla Ann Bhansali, retired from law, in 2008, as Sarah A Martin, apparently.
I find that I am worried about that Indian secretary or lawyer.
Anyway back to the PRFD, and my typo error divorce certificate.
I wrote to the PRFD about 10 times between 2012 and 2015, without response, then I decided to go to the in person,Mao I just went there, with the paperwork, the Clerk of the Court was on the Complaints desk, I complained, he looked at the Divorce Plea, and Prayer, went to the back office and pronounced, so even I heard him “…give her a corrected certificate, ‘they’ do NOT have a case…” So they issued me a replacement certificate.
A year later I am still hearing whispers, and my daughter ‘still flats ‘, with a half Thai half English girl and the niece, of a south west family court judge, who seems intent on re-writing Family Law, in favour of men, and recently placed a boy under 2 1/2 years old, in the sole custody of his father! I personally do not approve.
So I order a new copy of my divorce, while pursuing another divorce search through the PRFD. A week plus later, nothing has happened, my cheque has not cleared, and due to the years of waiting for the PRFD to send me a corrected copy of the transcript of my 1979 divorce, I decide to go to London, again.
I got to the counter complete the forms, I ask the Coerk first to check to see if there are any of my searches in he system, he states no there are none, so I resolve to cancel the original cheque and file a new set of searches, right there, over the counter, which is now changing to be the CFC, with outlying divorce Courts.
A week later I go to the Bank, who tell me that the cheque has cleared, but I have only received the searches, that I requested and paid for by card, over the counter, one set, but I have paid for two…
So I complain to the CFC/PRFD, two weeks after the second application copies have been received, over a month since the first postal application one copy of a divorce certificate arrives! With no typos, all quite correct, as was that I paid for over the CFC counter.
So quite divorced thank you.
However as I was complaining I needed proof that I had paid for two sets of divorce search copies, but received only one, so I took copies from the Bank, of the cheques. Only to find the name Teelucknavan on the back of one cheque.
So that was why there were no searches in my name in the CFC system, because someone had put them in his name, no doubt they had sent the results to his address, too!
And there was an explanation, immediately of why I had received no corrections to the erroneous divorce certificate, between 2012 and 2015.
Of Added interest, the postal search requests went to an address, in Northants or Leics, not London.
It is a no brainier that someone in the PRFD Mail room, is clearly diverting post from ever reaching it’s target address.
In war times, postal staff etc were considered the most important people, spies gleaned most of their information from the post, clearly it is no different now, perhaps with legal firms paying postal clerks, who today are considered menial employees, to subvert the course of justice.
In my instance keeping this Thai, in the game, by pretending he had a legal reason to be interested in my personal business, not, but a typo would gain him a bit of legal tenure..! By if nothing else, casting ‘doubt…’ Another cynical use of one of the cornerstones of English Law.

So now, as we were once married, over 40 years later I am preparing to take out a non molestation order, against him, for myself and my daughter.

Jimbo - June 6, 2012 at 5:59pm

These days, if you tell your partner to “shut up,” that can be viewed as domestic violence.

The degree of evidence required to get these non-molestation orders is woefully inadequate and malicious solicitors use them as a tool for resident parents who are intractable on contact.

asif waheed - May 9, 2016 at 12:11am

well said

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 12:00pm

Agree 100%. That Judges fall for it makes them bad also.

DT - June 6, 2012 at 7:23pm

Laura

I really like this post – it’s just the right amount of information, pitched in the right way.

I think that non-mols. used to be cautiously handed out, however, do you think that nationally this is still the case? 

The reason I ask this, is that following a number of women being murdered by their partners over the last few years and this being covered quite a bit by the media, I got the impression when I was in private practice (and it was only an impression), that non-mols. have been granted more easily in recent years. 

Perhaps I’m wrong or perhaps it was more to do with the area of the country where I worked – I don’t know.

I’ve given your article a lot of thought today and I don’t think that these orders are draconian; I think that they’re an order of last resort.

Thank you for mentioning civil partnerships.

DT

DT - June 6, 2012 at 8:55pm

Jimbo

“malicious solicitors”?

If solicitors were to act maliciously, it would soon get about, they’d never get instructed and would be struck off!

Acting maliciously is neither in the client’s not the solicitor’s best interest therefore I do not accept that this happens.

DT

JR - April 12, 2014 at 3:32pm

Oh believe me this happens, Malicious client’s do this all the time to prevent contact, they do not have to provide any evidence to support their claims, can do it Ex Parte & get legal aid for it! The poor defendant then has to provide evidence to dispute these claims! Sadly the family court doesn’t operate like any other court it seems. Basically the resident parent (more often than not the mother) can make any claim no matter how heinous and the non-resident parent has to provide evidence to substantiate his defense. It should be, in order to make an allegation…you require evidence, the same as criminal, tribunal and small claims courts. The Family court’s need to change this and really start putting children first. Mother’s can break court orders whenever they want by just stopping contact & then the father has to reapply to court to have this dealt with, the judge re-instates contact immediately & nothing happens to the mother for breaching the court order in the first place, again this needs to stop! If anybody breaks any other form of order they can be imprisoned, yet mums can break these orders as many times as they want and no punishment is given as the court feels that putting a mother in prison is not beneficial to the children…well neither is not seeing their father for no reason other than the mother is malicious, again the county court would imprison the same mother for not paying her council tax bill though! My heart goes out to all these fathers who are being dictated to, controlled & are being victimized by malicious mothers playing god with their children’s lives!

HM - October 17, 2014 at 6:10pm

It also appears that fathers who have abused both the mother and child can get away with anything. In fact, a father who has abandoned his child during contact and been dealt with by the police and social services, can in fact take the mother to court and sue her for no contact, just because he feels like it, and get the enitre process paid for by legal aid! That is the joke in the family system!

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 12:03pm

It is in the solicitors financial interest to make the case acrimonious and as long as possible to get more fees.

Paul Gilson - June 6, 2012 at 9:12pm

In the course of disputes involving children, non-mols are dished out ex-parte like Smarties. The rules may be stringent – on paper – but are never stringently applied and applicants frequently distort or lie about the facts. Nor are return hearing dates automatically and quickly set either. This is another unscrupulous aspect of family law, promoted by the unscrupulous, including solicitors, often for tactical, balance sheet motives.

Observer - June 7, 2012 at 12:03am

DT –

Let’s not forget all the men murdered by their partners, who for one reason or another don’t merit any media attention.

Let’s not forget all the children murdered by their mothers as a result of a pathologically adversarial family justice system.

Jimbo is right, and you are wrong, I’m afraid. Malicious solicitors are in abundance, and they are not held to account. You will of course know that the Solicitors Regulation Authority only exists to provide the public with the appearance that solicitors are accountable.

JamesB - June 7, 2012 at 11:46am

they often just change the locks when the fella is at work then if he trys to break in do him for aggresion and assault and non mol and occpation order.

JamesB - June 7, 2012 at 11:47am

the problem is they then regard the house as theirs and the bloke is out on his ear, leaving, with, nothing.

JamesB - June 7, 2012 at 11:48am

the lock idea is usually from the feminazi police or lawyer or society.

Paul Gilson - June 7, 2012 at 6:28pm

Why can’t fathers get an equivalent ‘no notice’ deal on personality disorders?

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 12:12pm

I like that, and your guitars.

DT - June 7, 2012 at 6:32pm

Observer

Which statistics are you relying upon in relation to men being murdered by their partners? Do you know for sure that they haven’t received any media attention? Can you prove this?

What evidence do you have to support the notion that children have been murdered by their mothers as a result of a “pathologically adversarial family justice system”? I’d be interested to see this.

I do not accept that malicious solicitors are in abundance – show me the evidence and I’m willing to reconsider my view on the matter. I’ve had my mind changed on a number of matters through reading this blog and I’m open to fresh ideas.

The SRA is not there to manage public perception; it has teeth, it isn’t afraid to use them and indeed does! The SRA website publishes the findings of disciplinary hearings; it’s pretty transparent.

DT

B L - June 27, 2012 at 7:51am

HI my daughter has a non mol against her ex partner who is very unstable abusive and violent the police applied for it he has started now coming behind my husband whom is a pensioner and does not want to confront him flashing his lights and tooting his horn is this breaking his order as he has been told he must not have any contact with her or her family we have been told he is now in court next week for harrasment to another lady will what he has done to my daughter and her family be took into account it was late last year he was given the non mol

Marilyn Stowe - June 27, 2012 at 7:54am

Dear BL
Thanks for contacting me. I suggest you tell the police immediately and let them deal with it.
Best wishes
Marilyn

Sam - June 10, 2014 at 7:57pm

I have a non mols against me saying no direct or in direct I have my children 4 days per wk and this was grantred to me why this is in place my ex wife his my children and aabuses them social mare involved but take her side ive been arrested for driving down a road on the motor way and she was 5 cars behind me the childrens order stated I collect and return to her gate but she has moved with out telling police or court new address and say I have to meet her on my own and her on her own so why have a non mols if shes happy to meet me this states she was lying shorly ive been threatened by her new partner but im in the wrong I now have to face trial in sep 14 for fuck all but can be looking at 2years but I have full custody of my son aged 15 and parental of my 2 daughters 4 and 8 who I have sunday to Monday and thursdasy to Friday half all holidays and etc but she wont let me have the kids unless I meet her on my own
advice please wat do I do

geoff - August 7, 2012 at 10:30pm

ive just been issued with one of these non mols… cant believe it!!!

i went to my exes house as arranged and gave my daughter her birthday presents, my daughter wanted to go to mcds for a happy meal and jumped into the back of my car her mum said no an man handled me out of way, man handled my current with by grabbing her by the hair , and I may add she had an 8mth old infant on her knee causing the child to be nearly dropped…. i was in such a rage I knocked of the wing mirror of the car the ex drives ( which is legally half mine!!) ay new wife then hit my ex a slap on the face because she pulled her hair and nearly dropped our baby, the ex then threatens us with paramilitaries ( ie someone will be around to beat us up ) …. then I get hit with crimial damage for damaging my own car!! my wife for assult!!! even thou the ex did what she did…. and now this non mol!!! and Im still waiting to be interviewed by the cops over the criminal damage and assault charges!!!! …. Is there any appeal or justice for fathers out there??!!! …

As for solicitors being malicious, yes some are some arent…. remember solicitors are not there to help you… they are there to make money!!! its a business after all

Eb2b - September 25, 2012 at 3:41pm

I enjoyed reading peoples views on this issue and would like to add my own.
I think its possible that NMO’s may be handed out more easily… However, not one of you has touched on how harassment (of whichever form) effects the well being of the victim and any children involved in the situation.
I believe that this is something that sould be handed out easily. Victims of abuse, such as harassment, constant calls, name calling etc, and the children (who incidentally are not stupid and hear what is going on) are very much in danger of being psychologically damaged by those actions.
I know what I’m talking about here, my partner (male) is going through the process of getting something in place to stop his ex (who has the most parental responsibility of their child) from shouting at him and sending threatening and abusive messages. This is NOT for his benefit (in his eyes at least, as although he may not admit it, its clearly affecting his emotional wellbeing), he is doing this because it is affecting the wellbeing of his daughter who is 5 years old and voicing her concerns about “mummy shouting and swearing and anger”.
Please THINK about posting comments such as “These days, if you tell your partner to “shut up,” that can be viewed as domestic violence.” When actually it has a very detrimental effect on people, even when it is not directed at them! My poor little step daughter has to stand there every time her daddy picks her up and listen to a torrent of abuse directed to her dad, who incidentally is a fantastic dad and deserves a medal for what he has put up with for two years!

Eb2b - September 25, 2012 at 4:19pm

Can I also just say, regarding this comment: “In the course of disputes involving children, non-mols are dished out ex-parte like Smarties”
This sounds to me as though you have not taken the time to look at the ‘bigger picture’. I understand that people can distort and lie about incidents, but has it not occurred to you that there are honest people out there who really need NMO’s to PROTECT THE WELLBEING OF THEIR CHILD??!!!
Honestly! My partner doesn’t even have full custody of his daughter!! Yet he is concerned for her. Comments like that make me believe you may be at the sticky end of an NMO and not taken into account the effects that simple “words” have on children.
My partners ex thought it would be a good idea to shout out to a train station at large “don’t bother bringing her (‘her’ being their 5 year old daughter) back on Sunday coz I don’t want to see you ever again”. What she failed to realise is that to a 5 year old this means that “mummy doesn’t want me anymore”. Also NO… You shouldn’t be allowed to tell a partner or ex-partner to shut up!! What are you? Some kind of control freak? And what are you teaching your kids? That this is the way men are supposed to speak to women? Or even vice-versa!!
Sorry, but any kind of verbal abuse, direct or over the telephone, even the kind that isn’t directed or in front of children, HAS AN EFFECT… 1) if the child witnesses this and 2) if it has an effect on either parent because emotional abuse can make a person unwell, fearful, edgy, nervous and depressed, therefore affecting their skills as a parent.
A good parent will go out and get an NMO because they understand the effects of behaviour. A bad parent will either be blase to the effects or be at the sticky end of it.
I believe that my partner should have every right to apply for an NMO, and not because I’m his partner (I wouldn’t be with him if he was abusive to his ex), but because the most important thing that is involved here is a poor child stuck in the middle of an abusive, volitile mother and a father just trying to do what is best.
Let’s not forget that these NMO’s are mainly in place to protect children. And I’m sorry, but if people disagree that children have the right to be protected from hearing abuse then they are just as bad as the abusers themselves. The term molestation SHOULD NOT be given a definition in statute because it allows for loopholes and people WILL abuse that, endangering peoples right to live their lives peacefully and also endangering their health and safety.
By the way, I am a law student, but I believe that the interest of people, as an individual, should be taken into consideration. And that most certainly goes for children, who don’t have much of a voice in this society!

Luke - April 13, 2014 at 9:00pm

“Please THINK about posting comments such as “These days, if you tell your partner to “shut up,” that can be viewed as domestic violence.”
==========================================================

Well, I’ve thought about it Eb2b, and it’s still unbelievable BS to view that as domestic violence.

Soon we”ll have

“They looked at me in a funny way that made me scared”

I believe YOU need to think about the ramifications of everything being viewed as potentially domestic violence depending on how a person ‘feels’ about it.

cathyw - October 5, 2012 at 10:04am

Be warned this can cost you alot of money. My solicitor ripped me off to the tune of £1200. I ended up being even more stressed and harrassed by my solicitors!!

sam - February 9, 2013 at 7:39pm

What happens if the applicant that made the Non-Molestation Orders breaks it themselfs does the same apply?

margaret - February 13, 2013 at 10:03am

my ex partner and i seperates three years ago on friendly basis .i then loaned her cash £20.000 . and she wouldnt pay me my money back when i phoned her to ask for my money she said take me to court,which i did do .then she went banckrupt, as she is a solicitor three years after we parted she took the non molestation order out ,im 63 in poor health where am i a risk to this 46 year old gold digger ,she is still working

chris coutanche - February 16, 2013 at 10:09pm

the criteria that is necessary is found in Flr 554 c v c The argument in where i seethe problems ! this mechanism of making such applications comes at the same period when contact has been withheld deliberate, and then the fathers in most cases need to file not only a application to enforce contact,hes then defending in most cases the none molestation on unfounded allegations, that process then takes the matter to having a finding on the issue, contact is withheld by the resident parent[often the mother] ,so solicitors then advise in most cases to apply for none molestaion orders ,to make a smoke screen

Siobhan Thomas - February 18, 2013 at 8:12pm

Would this be the best root to get my 20yr old daughter out of my home. Our relationship has broken down and she threatened me. I dont want the police in olved just want her out with tough love without getting her into trouble

anon-out-of-compliance - July 21, 2013 at 12:39am

Non-molestation orders were brought into law by the domestic violence act. I agree they should be used to protect (normally a woman) from actual harm.

Unfortunately they are being used as gagging orders. As JamesB and Jimbo have mentioned, a contact-denying mother can apply ex parte, say she is in distress by some action(s) of the father, e.g. Facebook posts about her contact denial, facebooked photographs of the child that ‘distress’ her (I.e. photos of the child with the father) and the courts readily dish the non-mol out. Yes, the subject has the right to contest the order on 48 hours’ notice but the judge who hears him does not bear in mind the context. They may ‘understand frustrations’ but they are unconcerned at the draconian nature of a seriously restrictive ARRESTABLE OFFENCE they create that seriously impinges the civil liberties of free speech that the father should enjoy.

Marylin. What arrestable orders are there protecting fathers when mothers breach contact orders? The answer is zero. Why is this?

Hope - July 25, 2013 at 1:09pm

Hello I love this article… I just have one question…. When the court is serving the non-molestation order to the respondent do they attach the applicant’s personal statement with the order? Or do they just sent out the order alone?

JKS - July 29, 2013 at 6:00pm

I response to Hope on , the court attach the complainants statement to the order. The respondent receives the whole lot.
Its a draconian law and an absolute scam. I too believe that they ARE dished out like smarties.
It effectively criminalises someone for doing something that would not normally be criminal.
The complainant can go and get an order , ex-parte , and then she has free reign to do as she pleases , all the while the respondent can be arrested for merely going about his normal business. Its a despicable manipulation of the law.
There should be an urgent review into this miscarriage of justice and human rights violation , especially as it is mostly used against innocent law abiding fathers who merely want contact with their children.

sarah - August 9, 2013 at 8:02pm

I was wondering if I can take out this order on behalf of my partner. He has kicked out his 20yo son numerous times and told him he doesn’t want him returning but then he does again and again, usually at early hours of the morning forcing him to let him stay. He wants to take out a non mol but keeps putting it off, he is very depressed and gives in to him for an easy life but then he abuses him and causes problems, he financially abuses him but he gives in everytime as he can’t cope. We don’t live together but I do stay his several nights a week, if I could apply for an order I would as I do believe that he needs to to force him to be responsible for himself. Can I do this or could my partners mum make an application? She also would if it is possible. For his own health we need this now before he has another breakdown. Thanks.

Marilyn Stowe - August 10, 2013 at 7:49am

Dear Sarah
There is a clearly a deeply unhappy and complicated relationship between father and son and Im not sure that even if he did go to court this would help restore a relationship balance. What about family therapy? Perhaps your partner’s GP could assist or a local counselling service?
Solving the long term problem might be the real answer here.
Regards
Marilyn

Julie - August 11, 2013 at 3:06pm

Hi ,
I wish to apply for a NMO against a grandparent. They have a court order to have contact with my child, and between the contact dates, we receive abusive text, and abusive letters, it has got to the point that I am now on medication for anxiety. Is this possible considering they have a contact order? Thanks

atonished and failed by justice - August 13, 2013 at 10:10pm

I have recently been issued with a NMO and Iam astounded at how easily my ex partner has manipulated past issues to make her the all innocent party as if she did no wrong. she has lied in her statement numerous times and seemingly missed out any parts of the relationship where she was more abusive and aggressive than me. she is using the order as a way of control and a way in which she can now control when I see my children in future. She is apparently not to contact me but is sending texts from a phone for my kids as them as a way of trying to communicate when I have to have kids etc. it is clear to see that my children are not capable of writing these texts so even though the order was past only last Friday she is already trying to continue to talk as was before the order. she is far from being in fear of her life, I have never sent or phoned in an abusive way and have definitely not harassed her. how can me messaging her be harassment when we have been willingly seeing each other again for over 10 months. its called communication, I really am very confused on how she can just twist and manipulate situations to get this put on me. from reading numerous comments on internet it is apparent that the person applying doesn’t need solid evidence of any of the alleged accusations and I am now considered to be a danger to civilisation and children even though she cant wait to let me see them? how can she accuse me of being a supposed heavy drinker that is abusive and threatens her safety but have no issue what so ever of me seeing my children and willingly get back into a near year long relationship spending lots of time with me and the children going away on holiday if she actually believed what she said in a statement to the court it really doesn’t make sense at all

Neil - August 22, 2013 at 2:47am

Hi I had a NMO by my now ex wife whilst I was on police bail (never charged) due to aligations made by her and boyfriend to the police relating to Burgulary,Criminal Damage and texts of a threatening and sexual nature. I attended court to agree with the ristrictions that had been placed on me only to be told that I had to agree that the accusations made against me to obtain the NMO were true,I refused I was not going to admit to something I had not done.
I spoke with my solicitor on the courtroom phone and was told the only option I had was to go for a Final Hearing and I had a week to secure funding estimated at £5000. I returned to court the following week to conferm to the judge that I was going for a final hearing and a date was set for it he also gave a date for my ex,s legal team to supply me with all the evidence to be used against me including police evidence relating to my arrest(by then bail had been canceled) the evidence never materialised 4 days before the court hearing I was informed she was not going through with it I still went to court with a Barrister as I don’t believe a word the x says so I ended up paying a£3200 legal bill for a piece of paper saying the NMO was cancelled. Since then I have gone through the police complaints procedure been given a appology and they confermed that I had not commited any crime they also said do not believe a word that comes out of the x mouth also 2 months after she was supposed to attend court she turned up at my home told me she had falen out with the boyfriend admitted that I had not commited any crime and then had the audacity to ask me to sort her x boyfriend out. I know there is a need for a legal procedure to protect people from abuse but also surely Judges should not hand them out without a thorough investigation, in my cace a phone call to the police would have sufficed and caused a lot less heart ache for me and my 2 sons

Paul - August 22, 2013 at 8:51am

Your case< Neil, shows why this appalling system of non-mol orders needs to be ended. As I said above, they are dished out like Smarties and on typically dishonest grounds where there is little or no comeback on the liar.

In the end, the only possibilities you have are civil actions – against the police, possibly, for false arrest (did they really need to arrest you to investigate this matter? Could you not have happily complied with their wishes voluntarily?) and an action against the mother for her dishonesty in fitting you up. You have more chance of success against the police than the mother, particularly if you have already managed to wring an apology out of them. That is virtually tantamount to an admission of wrongdoing on their part.

I am afraid that you have suffered the typical father's lot. in this gender-biased and discriminatory age in which we are trying to bringi up our children, your type of case is regrettably not uncommon . The courts themselves know this but do nothing to punish the miscreants.

Neil - August 22, 2013 at 10:27pm

Hi PAUL in answer to your question referring to my arrest I was unable to comply with there wishes due to the sercomstances of my arrest I will explain
On the afternoon of my arrest I receved a phone call of my then 10yr old son who was in a very disressed state asking me to come and pick him up from his mothers,i told him to wait outside of the house and I would be ther in 10min.One the way to pick him up I picked my eldest son and his girlfriend up who where walking back from school they were both 15 at the time.We arrived at the house and my youngest son was not outside so my eldest son said when he got in the house he would tell him I was outside waiting for him.About 10 mins passed and he had not appeared so I knocked on the door the response I got was a barrage of obscenities and was acused of upsetting him my response was ok I will phone the police as I was concerned about him only to be told the police are on there way so I said I would wait for them.Ireturned to my vehicle and awaited the arrival of the police,who arrived shortly after in force there was 3 police cars and 6 police officers they ran to the front door whitch is on the side of the house just out of my vew I decided to stay in the car till they came to me and then ask them to get my sons so I could speak with them and make sure they were ok.After lots of scratching there heads and radio calls a officer came over to my vehicle and arrested me for burgulary on a mobile home where my son’s pony was kept,i told them it was nothing to do with me and asked them if I could see my sons they refused stating I was arrested for burgulary and therefore there was no need to see my sons I pointed out my concerns about the state my son was in when he phoned but they still refused so I pointed out that I suspect that the reason so many police officers attended was my X had reported a fictisious domestic incident they wouldent answer me and I got took of to the police station.Un beknown to me my sons were in tears whatching out of the upstairs window.
On arrival at the police station there was confusion to who was dealing with so called burgulary so I was processed ,DNA was taken and fingerprinted and sometime later a DC fetched me out of the cells and took me to a interview room where a duty solicitor was she informed me I was not only arrested for burgulary but also for sending sexually explicit and threaterning txt”s to the X and the owner of the field and his wife.She (solicitor) asked a few questions about X I explained I had had no contact with her in 11 months the only contact I had was with my 2 sons on a very regular basis.
She then told me that the police wanted me to have a caution whitch I refused as I had not done anything so I was then interviewed by police officers and put on bail for 6 weeks and my mobile phone taken for forencic examination I was on bail for a total of 16 weeks and had my phone returned after 6 weeks.
So Paul in answer to your question I was not in a position to comply with there wishes.
The realy annoying thing was the X lied to my sons about my bail conditions telling them any contact including facebook with your dad and he will go to prison but kids are very resorcefull and after 4 weeks they learned the trouth with the help of friends and made contact with me.
Iwas arrestes on 16/6/2012 when the Xcame to see me in January 2013 she informed me the boyfriend was in fact the owner of the field turns out he wouldent leave his misses.
the boys have come through it well and life goes on well not realy I was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer in July 2012

Naz - August 31, 2013 at 9:15pm

I am going to magistrates court as I breached the non -mol . The ex wife moved out of my property on Tuesday and would not give back the keys despite writing via my solicitor over a month ago to advise on move date etc . When collecting the kids on Wednesday evening , I asked her for the keys . She refused so I went away . On Friday I get arrested as I communicated verbally asking for my keys . I previously breached in April , for sending a txt saying please could she make sure her new partner does not upset the children. That time I got a conditional discharge . Please anyone tell me what is my likely outcome on Thursday . I am so worried ?

Marilyn Stowe - September 2, 2013 at 12:22pm

Dear Naz
See a solicitor. The problem is that what you say happened and what she says happened may well differ and it may be that her complaint is more serious. Its her word against yours. These orders aren’t a joke. If you were ordered not to communicate with her then you should not have done so. You’ve had one warning with a conditional discharge. Now that comes back into play too. I don’t know what the court will do, but please get legal advice urgently.
Regards
Marilyn

sherrie - September 8, 2013 at 6:25pm

I am trying to get a NML order against my ex, we split almost two months ago and he texts me up to 100 times a day, i changed my number, I have called the police 3 times, once he was even in garden and still they will not arrest him as he hasnt actually threatened me, he sits outside my house every night sometimes using different peoples cars, he follows me everywhere i go and does not care that he if frightening me and my 4 children, 2 of whom are his. He regularily states he wants them then when i get them ready says he will only have them if he can have them in my house, which i obviously refuse then he tries to make out i am stopping him from seeing them. He is an awful man and i hope i get my Nmol order, and for the men that think their behaviour is ok, you are all deluded. I have split with him because he cheated and i only found out through the police when i first contacted them as apperntly he was on bail for rape and sexcual assult of the 2 girls he cheated on me with, he got accuitted but seriously some men are just plain horrible, yet he text me i was a cheat constantly(which i never did) and when police read as i hadnt resonded and defended myself i could see by their faces they even belived his accusations. the police let you down and we pay them taxes. i would rather pay a solicitor. at least they know what they are doing and get realistic results for us made prisinors

Sam - September 18, 2013 at 11:21pm

My son has had an ex-parte non-Mol slapped on him by his ex who is the mother of his child. I know my son will not have been an angel, but I have seen with my own eyes the fact that it the ex that starts the violence – ho doesn’t fight back just tries to restrain her. There are at least 2 incidents where the police were called and I was told by the officers that she had admitted starting the violence, that my sons injuries were far worse than those she was saying she had, and that if he had wanted to press charges she would have been the one who was charged with assault. I have seen her ‘statement’ which forms part of the Order and to be honest, she could win a prize for fiction – she has not had to actually provide hard evidence of any of the claims she has made. I have been trying to help my son as he has no other family to support him but we live abroad so its not easy. The ex has played fast and loose by contacting him regarding issues outside that which he is allowed to communicate with her about saying that she had permission from the judge (!)and tonight she has had him arrested for breaching the order. Trying to find some legal advice and help is more or less impossible. He has been trying the Citizens advice bureau but due to economic cutbacks they are overloaded. He currently has no job, is not entitled to legal aid since the rules changed, even tho’ the ex is, and I don’t have the money to help him – we’re already helping him pay his rent and bills! Has anyone got any suggestions?

Joanne - October 18, 2013 at 12:09am

I took a NMO out and a occupancy order out against my ex partner who still lived at the property. The judge ruled that we could stay in the same house as there had been no physical violence for a few years just lots of emotional and verbal abuse. He broke the order a few times the first time I called the police but they said that there was no power of arrest attached to it so he could not be removed. So I didnt see the point of calling them again. The order was for 6 months and for us to decide the outcome for living arrangements (felt very let down by the system). However it has been 8 months since the order ran out and Im at my witts end. I even feel the children are being turned against me. We live in Housing Accomodation and the council have advised I go back to court again, but is it going to be the same outcome again. I am considering private renting which will be much more expensive and will loose any chance of being placed with the council again for making myself unintentionally homeless (council words). If I leave then he would not be able to keep the property on his own and we both loose it. All he wants is for me to leave and leave the children with him in his house as its me wanting to move out to change my children and my life for the better. Apparantly me wanting this for the better is hurting the children more than seeing us arguing all the time. And now its appanantly me who starts it all the time. I think emotional abuse is so demoralising I cant do this anymore. Which way do I go. And finding a solicitor last time was hard and now she has moved offices to 10-15 miles away. Not many firms here do family court or if they do not with legal aid.

Marilyn Stowe - October 19, 2013 at 2:35pm

Dear Joanne
If you live in England and Wales, you should apply under Schedule 1 Children Act 1989 for a transfer of the tenancy. Go and get legal advice and help.
Regards
Marilyn

Stitchedup - October 18, 2013 at 9:50am

This thread makes depressing reading. In the main, non-mols are used tactically as part of the gamesmanship of divorce and separation; they are a scourge on society.

Gilda - November 1, 2013 at 4:01pm

Many thanks for the article. The grounds are set very well with examples from comments adding good value. I could add mine. My husband and I are planning to place a NM to his parents and ex-wife with whom he has 15 years old daughter on shared parenting for last nine years. We do not speak and avoid any communication with these people last two years due to endless abuse towards me and destructive action against our family starting from blackmail to withdraw kid access if we stay together (never happened as she drinks and party needing time without the kid), not accepting my son or me as family members and of cause loading the kid with a lot of “stuff”. As often with control freaks they won’t leave us alone any way. Now they place staged pictures on Facebook of the kid as if drinking alcohol or being “fancy” a man her father age. A former fried revealed that was done purposely to wind up my husband. Parents yesterday sent him email to work to say I was arrested by police (saw police car nearby while stocking-walking). The kid slipped a word about some secret with grandparents which she won’t disclose and got very nervous about. I am getting really worried to get poison in my tea one day. Need to say here – I am Russian and there are many signs of the animosity having racial basis. I hope the NM will work for us. The kid is actually trying very hard. But shared custody is not an option. She has to choose her home. Taking part in joking at her father like this does not work. Happy to have her with us. And, god, she needs therapy. If I have not seen her as empathic and caring kid at 7, I would say at 15 there is a rainbow of autistic spectrum. Here – culturally imposed by her mother’s emotional control. Why wasted 8 years when had enough to apply for full custody at the time? Well, tried to be civil all these years. Pointless. Never suffer any even little bit of abuse. Not worth it. Even these who you think would benefit – the kids, they do not benefit in fact. People who get a buzz from abusing you, abuse kids as well. Even their own mothers.

Paul - November 1, 2013 at 7:17pm

Neil, I’ve only just seen your comment. In my opinion, you have a very strong claim against the police for false arrest and imprisonment, more so as you appear to have wrung an apology out of them which they rarely give unless they are clearly and manifestly in the wrong.

To get a clearer indication, take your case to a “no win, no fee” police actions lawyer and ask his or her opinion. Police have no business arresting anyone summarily unless A) there is suspicion of crime and B) most importantly, that an arrest is necessary to investigate the offence. SAs no search was involved, they are scuppered on B) and lacking this essential requirement, it is highly probable your arrest was unlawful. Why, for instance, could you have not attended for interview by voluntary agreement?

Sue your chief constable. He is responsible in law for the illegal actions of his officers.

Paul S - November 5, 2013 at 9:45am

Just a quick couple of questions please.

I have had both of these slapped on me by my ex, she did not even know how or why she could get one, just used a solicitor to get her what she wanted by whatever means required, which was me out of the jointly owned house , so she could move her new boyfriend in .
No violence on my part, she did though hit me and threatened to have some blokes come around and “warn me off” she even re-iterated this in front of two police officers and was removed from the house as a result, the judge on the day was not interested. Based on just arguing (which she always initiated in front of the children. I even resorted to not speaking to her and just communicating by text and email so she would then goad me into an argument) the judge placed a 12 month set of orders on me.

During this 12 month period can I apply to the court for them to be modified? I need to go to the house when my wife and children are not there during the day in order to finish a refurb I was carrying out so that it can be sold as part of our ongoing divorce.

Also after 12 months do I have full right of access again? or can she just get the order extended after that.

Draconian, yes, handed out like smarties yes! they are meant quite rightly to protect women from domestic violence, many solicitors are just using them to drag out divorces for their own financial gain, the balance of probability in family law is very wrong. It should be as per criminal law. How can 51/49 be the correct way to initiate such draconian powers.

Appreciate any factual legal advice relating to the above as I am now unemployed and finances are very low.

Paul S - November 5, 2013 at 2:21pm

Some further info relating to my case.

(Paul S Ive edited your comments about your wife’s legal team.)
The judge indicated that at our next divorce court date I should put forward my proposal for the house completion and she should do the same so it did appear I could have limited access somehow.

Oh the best bit, I submitted my petition for divorce based on her adultery which she said via her solicitor she would not contest, then a week later I find out her solicitor urged to to also submit a petition the same day, after she was fully aware mine was in place, based on my unreasonable behaviour, so we now have two divorces running as well!

Paul - November 5, 2013 at 2:25pm

You need legal advice around your own facts, Paul. Comment here is general and cannot possibly suffice.

You should have been given a return hearing when the court hears your side of the story. Has this all been rolled up into other proceedings? Usual story if that’s the case.

The system of non-molestation orders is an unspoken scandal. I would hazard a guess and say most are totally inappropriate, obtained for balance sheet purposes only in situations such as yours. Unless you write to your MP and raise the issue nothing will happen and the the iniquitous abuse of these orders will remain.

Paul S - November 5, 2013 at 2:32pm

This was the judges summing up. He asked me the following:-

Do you agree your children have a right of residence in the home? I replied yes

Do you agree your wife is their main carer? I replied yes

Therefore do you agree your wife also has the right of residence? I replied yes

Do you agree that you argue when you are both in the home with the children? I replied yes, as my wife goads me into responding despite requesting only non verbal communication between us.

He then said on that basis I uphold the orders and they remain in place for 12 months. He did however remove the power of arrest attached to them.

Everything I own is in the house, I left with a suitcase of clothes yet I am not allowed within 200 yards now regardless.

Surely this is not right and fair?

DY - November 25, 2013 at 12:06pm

Just a very simple point. If the relationship is over and there is no intention to harass/stalk/commit violence why on earth would anyone be in the slightest bit bothered about the order? It doesn’t appear on the criminal record. If I was innocent and one was placed on me I would simply shrug and go about my business. Just food for thought people.

Ethan - November 25, 2013 at 2:55pm

Wrong attitude, DY. For one thing, bumping into her in the street by chance could easily bring arrest, charge, trial, sentence and life long criminal record.

Reputation matters a lot in life and is worth a heavy price to defend.

DY - November 25, 2013 at 9:49pm

Do you genuinely think it’s possible to “bump into” someone you are trying to avoid? Even given the extremely remote chance that you do see him or her on the street, you can’t get arrested for walking past or in the opposite direction of someone. Let’s think realistically about what it is designed to do which is protect and not ruin someone’s reputation. It’s designed to keep everybody including the perpetrator safe. Most importantly of all, it is designed to keep children safe.

Paul S - November 26, 2013 at 9:36am

I agree with the principal of occupation/non molestation orders, but they are being used as tools by solicitors and not for their intended purpose of protecting children.
In my case I doubt if it had been dealt with like a criminal matter the lack of evidence to the claims would have prevented an order being issued. If the judge believes 51% in favour of the applicant and 49% for the defendant then that it game over in family law, what kind of justice system is that.

Again in my case it was used just to stop me completing and selling the large property we had been living in. My wife initiated the arguments as instructed by her solicitor when I had said I only wanted non verbal contact. I was going to the house every day working on it, which cramped her style as the latest boyfriend could not then come around. The judge removed the power of arrest as he was satisfied there was no threat of violence, it was purely based on arguments she started when the children were around.

Paul S - November 26, 2013 at 9:41am

Spot on Ethan. My wife brings my daughters to the front door of the house I currently live in every Sunday, but I am not allowed to go to the front door of my own house which I own half of, to collect them! where is the sense in that?

I have been branded a criminal based on very flimsy verbal claims that could not be supported with any evidence.

If I text her ( to sort childcare matters) I am in breach of the non molestation order but she is allowed to, and does text me! madness

Andrew - November 26, 2013 at 11:01am

DY: In a small town where both parties have to shop, or commute from the same station, it is perfectly possible to encounter someone whom you would rather not – and if both walk too quickly round the same corner the “bump” can even be physical.

Stitchedup - November 26, 2013 at 1:17pm

DY, I’m not sure what your background is but your point is indeed very simple. You appear to have an extremely simplistic view of Non-mols and no real idea of how they play out in practice.

Firstly, I don’t believe anybody will try to justify physical violence…. that’s simply not on unless in self defence and even then you have to be VERY careful. As a man, claiming self defence against a woman is very dangerous and the claim will be treated with scepticism to say the least.

Anybody can claim harassment or intimidation, it’s way too open to individual perception and interpretation. It is completely natural to speak to a person, basic human communication. To impose such a level of control over a person is nothing short if barbaric, yet this is being done day in day out up and down the country in family courts, often on an ex-parte basis, based on a signed affidavit from the applicant that will often be full of lies and gross exaggerations.

Non-mols are routinely used in the gamesmanship of divorce and separation. My ex called time on our relationship of 20 years, claiming we were incompatible, our personalities clashed, I’m outdoorsy she isn’t.

She left the home, apparently to stay with her parents, yet was rarely there. I was left in the home with our two sons, trying to come to terms with the separation. Some weeks later the ex returned, and asked to move back in. I offered her the spare bedroom but refused to leave as I had discovered she had been having an affair. The way I looked at it, she had broken trust and let the family down so it wasn’t for me to leave the family home.

That’s when the problems started. As I wouldn’t leave she wanted to sell but I wouldn’t agree to her terms so offered mediation. The next thing I have is a solicitor letter stating she felt intimidated by me and refusing mediation. The ex went back to her parents but would let herself into the house, take things when I wasn’t there and start arguments when I was there. Eventually she applied for an occupation order along with an ex-parte non-mol issued in the civil courts. I didn’t contest the occupation order, simply had enough, so I agreed to move out and let her move in. However, I now have a conviction because I spoke to her when I felt I had reasonable excuse, i.e. she answered the phone when I called to speak to the kids and we ended up having a disagreement about the selling price of the house.

I’m now put in the same category as a violent wife beater or sexual abuser…that can’t be right. Divorce and separation are one of the most stressful things a person can encounter in life. In such circumstances, to convict a person for showing emotion of voicing disagreement about the selling price of the family home is totally barbaric.

I could go on forever about this but I’m conscious of the length of my post.

JamesB - November 26, 2013 at 2:15pm

Very similar story as mine stitched. I also made the mistake of moving out which didn’t help but made it worse – despite my ex’s lawyer claiming it would calm things it had the opposite effect.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 12:20pm

My solicitor advised me to move out also, they do side with each other against the man if it is not in the mans interest oftentimes. As they are agents of the court first and this should be remembered as courts aren’t interested in adults except to give them the money if they have children living with them and ‘protect’ them from anyone they feel in fear of. Something I got from my ex “I am in fear of you” not much you can say about that other than F off. Plus the Police did give me a warning for telling her to F Off, to which I told them to F Off. Silly game really. If you go to family court as a man against a woman expect to lose.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 12:30pm

The “I’m in fear of you James” mantra the solicitor tells them to say is strange. One day you are sleeping together, the next they are your worst enemy game playing and calling each other scum going for non mols and trying to rob each other, divorce can be nasty, was in my case. Especially with emotional people and the uncertain and unfair family law we have in E and W which needs changing please.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 12:46pm

For those of you wondering what happens if you tell your ex to F off…

Well, while being assaulted (my t shirt ripped to pieces) when dropping daughter off at birthday party, my ex turns up out of the blue as I am going to car and tries to grab my son when I am going back to car in my contact weekend.

I step between, she assaults me and rips my nice Tenerife T shirt to pieces. I push her off and say “no, F Off”. Other people turn up. Police are called. I get arrested and taken away, son goes with mother – Police are strange like that.

I get NFA’s (no further action). I have t shirt as evidence that she assaulted me, so they question her, I say what about cctv as was in carpark for childrens soft play thing, they say wasn’t on.

Eventually no charges anywahere, but I get a nice WPC to my place asking me to sign something, which knowing how lawyers are I declined, I think it was a warning or a caution, or something but I wouldn’t.

I then complain IPCC which goes nowhere. I should have sued her and did independent assault private prosecution. Her boyfriend, now husband was there looking on the whole time which makes him an idiot.

Yes, in front of son, don’t like her for that.

Over the years I was assaulted many times by her picking up and dropping off and out and about with the children. Not so much in recent years, perhaps as the Police are fed up with her and she was nearly done for assault that time , that seemed to stop it.

It is upsetting. My son’s first memory was mum pushing dad over and dad falling on him.

My point, not sure, just what happened and that the police were a bit hit and miss. I think they are a bit better now as people no longer go to IPCC who are useless, but to solicitors who sue them , I wish I had.

Other examples include me being arrested and abused on other occasions and I wish I had sued the police for them as well. This was between 5 and 10 times and last time was about 4 years ago.

What do I make of it all? Not sure. Perhaps they should bring back rule of thumb and my ex misses missed the rough sex, which perhaps now she gets elsewhere which is why she stops trying to fight with me.

I think there is a Clint Eastwood film where he paints the town red. Think High Plains Drifter. He has a problem with a woman like this and I think he just tells her to go away. These days he would be arrested by the police, although it seems to have peaked and be getting better as they have more important things to do like… I don’t know, but I am sure they do, like stopping people weeing down drains at 3 in the morning, another story.

Anyway, what happens if you tell your ex to F Off. The police attempt to give you a warning which is worth nothing. They record it and the council write to you and the other party and tell you to play nicely especially in front of the children. I did complain because the WPC investigating was feminist biased and her inspector said he had a word with her.

JamesB - November 26, 2013 at 2:20pm

The problem lies with bad law practice and the family courts. The answer has to be better lawyers and courts. In the meantime you and me and our children are unfairly treated. Not a great improvement then the way things were before divorce reform sadly, an opportunity missed. Hopefully equality will be more like equality and less like feminism in future, I am with David Cameron on that one, can’t think of anything else I agree with him on though.

JamesB - November 26, 2013 at 2:21pm

My story was late 2004 and it still bothers me.

Paul - November 26, 2013 at 8:52pm

A non-molestation order is a civil order with potentially serious criminal consequences for any transgression, perceived or otherwise, including those of a shoulder-shrugging skeptic.

EA - February 5, 2014 at 11:19am

The top comment “Observer ” is inaccurate. Solicitors are not malicious at all, this perception that they are is entirely wrong. A family solicitor advises on the law and takes instructions, the client provides the instructions. The client may be malicious but the solicitor is not as they do not provide the instructions. A solicitor may strongly advise against a certain course of action and will always advise to be amicable where possible. The person who wrote the post is probably not happy with the outcome of a family case and has then decided that all solicitors are malicious, which has no intellectual or objective basis at all.

MooMooJuice - February 10, 2014 at 6:45pm

Regarding all of the comments above, we obtained an AMO on 2 occasions , ex-parte and it quietened things right down immediately. The Male biological father of my step daughter ceased his texting, letter writing , contacting police , etc, etc right away. We regard it as an AMO success story, to anybody reading this male or female – there does come a point when a behaviour has to stop. The process is fairly straightforward – the court listing officer is your buddy – you can do it yourself if you set out in bullet form points what is going on. for us it gives us peace and quiet. I also accept that some are taken out vexatiously by mental women.

Stitchedup - February 11, 2014 at 11:40am

MooMooJuice, you are living proof that the use ex-parte non-mols are being abused left, right and centre. An ex-parte non-mol should only be granted in cases of extreme and imminent danger not to cease “texting, letter writing , contacting police , etc”. Far from being a success story, yours represents total abuse and complete failure of the system.

EA, you’re not living on the real world as moomoojuice has just proven. Any solicitor that applies for an ex-parte non-mol on the instructions of a client to stop “texting, letter writing , contacting police , etc” is abusing the system and imho could fairly be described as “malicious”.

Stitchedup - February 12, 2014 at 3:50pm

“without notice, section 8 orders should not be granted readily. Mr Justice Munby set out guidelines in Re S (Ex Parte Orders) [2001] 1 FLR 308. In X Council v B (Emergency Protection Orders) [2004] EWHC 2015 the indication was that it should normally be possible to give some kind of notice, albeit informal, thus reserving without-notice applications for cases of genuine emergency or other great urgency.”

http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/46829.article

I fail to see how “texting, letter writing , contacting police , etc” meets this criteria.

Tristan - February 12, 2014 at 5:51pm

That non-mol in particular ought never to have been granted ex-parte. It shows how the system is as badly abused by the magistrate who dishes out these Smarties as it is by the unscrupulous applicant. Have magistrates never heard of Article 6?

Stitchedup - February 13, 2014 at 9:57am

I agree Tristan. People then wonder why the Police and other agencies fail to spot the genuine cases of domestic violence and take action to protect those that are genuinely in danger.

The noise created by women and their solicitors abusing the system as part of the gamesmanship of divorce and separation, those that abuse the system to show their annoyance at being told something they don’t like, and the vexacious “mental women” that moomoojuice refers to put those at genuine risk in mortal danger.

Divorce and separation is a highly emotional time and you can expect disagreements and perhaps some unpleasant home truths to be exchanged between separating/divorcing couples. Removing people’s right to freedom of expression/speech and criminalising people (mainly men) for talking/commenting on issues is not the answer. How is it in the interest of a child to see his father convicted for having a disagreement about the selling price of the house or texting to say they are going to be late picking up the kids???. The man is labelled a violent domestic abuser just for talking, could possibly loose his job or find it very difficult/impossible to find a job. Why are the courts doing this???

Stitchedup - February 27, 2014 at 10:32am

Dear Marilyn,
please could you explain what steps I need to take to get a restraining order removed?. I have an indefinite restraining order against me that forbids me from talking to me ex partner of 20 years. The order was issued over two years ago, I’ve not breached it but my ex has been given a warning from the Police for wasting Police time having reported me for “looking in her direction with my arms folded” when in a pub; when I was actually being threatened and verbally abused and the man she was with was also making certain hand gestures towards me.

My ex works for the local council and I recently applied for a job there but have just been told that I didn’t get it. The interview went very well and I suspect that the fact that I have a restraining order against me may have swayed their decision, though they won’t say this openly. It is particularly annoying as I have previously worked for the council on a fixed term contract in the same service area as my ex and there was never any problems, we sometimes sat in the same team meetings but I didn’t speak to her directly. I had an excellent employment record with the council, no sickness for 2 years, no disciplinary of any sort, going beyond the call of duty to help deliver the project I was working on.

The restraining order as is effectively condemns me to a life sentence and I believe is interfering with ability to find work. My ex has demonstrated that she is prepared to use the order to be vindictive and it is interfering with my ability to have a relationship with my sons, in fear that I will be accused of communicating with her indirectly via them.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Cameron Paterson - February 27, 2014 at 11:26am

Hello Stitchedup – could you email us in relation to the above?

Thank you

Paul - February 27, 2014 at 11:20am

Make an application to the court (your non-mol will provide for this) and offer the court your personal undertaking that you will not engage in the behaviour complained of. Tell the judge why it’s no longer appropriate.

On the other hand, if that non-mol was issued ex-parte on no notice to yourself and the allegations were untrue anyway, then you face a different challenge altogether. However, leaving it for this long doesn’t help your case as you appear to have accepted your fate. In a court’s eyes that means guilty, m’lud, as charged.

Stitchedup - February 27, 2014 at 12:18pm

Hi Cameron,
I will drop you a line asap.

Paul,
thanks for your comment. My case is a little complicated, I was convicted of breaching the non-communication element of an ex-parte non-mol (untrue allegations) that resulted in a restraining order being issued in the criminal courts. I haven’t breached the restraining order but was convicted of breaching the 1 year non-mol 3 months into it because I was considered to have spoken to my ex without reasonable excuse just prior to the sale of the family home.

It’s probably all academic now but I turned up at the full hearing intending to contest the original non-mol but didn’t have time to organise representation as the non-mol was served on me at approx. 20:00 on a Thursday evening and the full hearing was arranged for 10:00 the following Monday morning.

I need to pull out the paperwork to get the exact wording of the judge, but there was something mentioned about the non-mol standing for 1 year or until application for variation or removal. The judge seemed to have some sympathy for my arguments but he said I would have to get police reports to contest the non-mol properly and he warned me “it isn’t a high hurdle for the applicant” and that I could just end-up costing me more money.

The ex had a solicitor and barrister present. I had to pick up her costs for the barrister but she had to pay for her solicitor, the words from the judge were something like “you have a barrister here, you don’t need that solicitor here holding your hand, you can pay for him”. That was probably the only bit of satisfaction I got from the experience.

As I said, much of the above all academic now as I was convicted the original ex-parte non-mol that has resulted in the restraining order.

Paul - February 27, 2014 at 2:09pm

Tons of sympathy, Stitched. This is what Marilyn means when she speaks of the failures around denial or absence of decent legal representation. I got one myself, fought it tooth and nail and actually had it removed later in the high court after the President himself had earlier looked down his nose and refused me the immediate return hearing the order said I was entitled to. The thing was I reacted there and then, in the moment. The papers weren’t even served on me but rather thrown out in the street where a member of the public picked them up! The passage of time doesn’t help you.

The problem remains a general one. These wretched orders are dished out as Smarties by “cut and paste” artists (magistrates) on ‘no notice’ applications that 90% of the time probably, ought to be refused without a contested hearing. It is actually a discredit to English law that senior judges have not sought to balance the law properly between serving the needs of women at genuine risk while obviating the injustice to men made the target of downright manipulation. They know the problem exists. Like a lot of things it’s easy to get lazy and sweep the problem under the carpet, particularly when the poor, affected, isolated punter, like you perhaps, has no political franchise to do anything about it.

Like I said before, wear your non-mol as a badge of honour, with pride and attitude, two fingers held forth.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 12:25pm

Wear as badge of honour, no , don’t agree. I had one then an undertaking as there was no evidence and they blackmailed me to sign an undertaking for a while. Anyway, my point is, its like boys underperforming girls in exams or people voting with their feet in elections, it is better to be engaged and change the system then pretend it is not there.

PAUL S - March 14, 2014 at 9:48pm

Just popped back on to give an update to my case. My ex is still using the non mol to manipulate the finances of our divorce.
Despite a number of attempts by me, the judge would not allow me access to finish the house so that it could be sold. Now though as it suits my ex, as she has run out of money she suddenly deems its ok for me to go back during the day and spend my money finishing our house. If I was such a risk to her and our children as originally claimed how come its ok now she has no money left to do the work, and no other reason? Mine was an ex parte non mol as well based on just emails from 4 months previous, where only my emails were shown not her replies! none were aggressive or threatening, just factual. I had given my ex a 14 day deadline to resolve matters as she kept evading the issue otherwise I was going to stop working on the place. The weekend before mine was issued my ex was removed from our house by the police after she called them, and I had to look after the children all weekend, then Monday afternoon my non mol was thrown through the door and I was told I had 5 mins to leave or be arrested. These judges just cover their arses by handing them out. The system is a joke and being used as a divorce tool by many solicitors to drag out the process in order to increase their fees

COLIN - March 17, 2014 at 12:29pm

THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED TO SCREW THE FATHERS AND ONLY PROTECT THE WOMEN WEATHER SHE IS RIGHT OR NOT
THE WOMEN KNOW WELL IF THEY SHOUT VIOLENCE THEY WILL GET COUNCIL HOUSE FREE LEGAL AID AND EASY DOLE MONEY
THEY KNOW HOW TO SCREW THE MAN AND MILK THE SYSTEM
ITS THE KIDS THAT SUFFER BUT THEY DONT GIVE A DAM IN UK
THE COURTS AND JUDGES ARE PRO WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY YOU WILL NOT GET JUSTICE IF U ARE MALE

Stitchedup - March 17, 2014 at 1:14pm

Paul S,
our situations sound quite similar. My ex used to let herself in the house to do her washing etc, see the kids, pick-up mail, take things, start arguments etc etc… then, for the purposes of securing a non-mol and avoiding mediation claimed, amongst other things, she felt intimidated by me. The system is a massively sick joke!

As I’ve said in an earlier post, non-mols are superfluous; all they do is make it possible to arrest/convict perfectly decent men for no good reason. Violent physical assault, threatening behaviour, criminal damage, sexual assault/abuse, child abuse etc etc can all be prosecuted without the use of non-mols. They are abused, used as a tool of gamesmanship and offer no real protection against assault or murder. They just hold a gun to a person’s head at and extremely stressful and emotional time, and make it possible for people to be criminalised just for talking, expressing an opinion, showing emotion etc. etc..

Non-mols cause an immense amount of bad feeling often resulting in the decimation of families.

How is a man convicted for talking to the mother of his children then meant to have an amicable relationship with her post separation???

What affect does this have on the children, seeing their father convicted and labelled a violent, domestic abuser???

How is the father then meant to support his children when he has a conviction so can not secure a job???

How is it in the public interest to put a man on benefits possibly for the rest of his life???

All this and more just for talking, expressing an opinion to the mother of your children, somebody you were in a relationship with for 20 years…. Totally absurd.

I could go on and on. Making a breach of a non-mol a criminal offence was a massive mistake, a disastrous decision. Anything to do with a non-mol secured in the civil courts on the balance of probability, should stay in the civil courts.

Non communication orders should definitely be scrapped. They impose a totally barbaric level of control at a highly emotional, sensitive, and stressful time. It has been proven time and time again that the courts can not be relied upon to use common sense when issuing the orders and dealing with alleged breaches.

Paul - March 17, 2014 at 1:47pm

What makes cases like Paul’s and yours worse is that senior judiciary are well aware of the problems regarding abuse of non-mols yet their attitude remains one of shoulder-shrugging lest they incur the wrath of those well-funded Harpies in the women’s groups. The only thing you can do is write a letter of complaint to your M.P. They won’t do anything either but at least it gets the message a tad nearer to home that the present situation is unacceptable.

PAUL S - March 27, 2014 at 8:48pm

Totally agree, its a one sided legal gag. My ex started texting me last week, so I replied. The reply did not contain the answer she wanted so a few days later I get an email from her solicitor telling me not to reply, as she claims this was harassment and will go to the police to get me arrested! but its ok for her to harass me.

I must admit any judges I have encountered since (during the subsequent divorce case) other than the judge who made the order, have all come down quite hard on my ex when they try tried to claim breach of the occupation/non mol when discussing assets. They have clearly stated they are not to be used as tools of control in sorting the finances/selling the house.

I honestly think any other judge in the system would not have issued the orders on me, or upheld them at the subsequent appeal I made. I had the wrong one at the wrong time, and he was duped by the barrister, who also just happened to by my wife’s solicitors husband, who had also climbed onto the gravy train, the judge could not then admit this at the appeal, so took me down the worded route I highlighted at the start of this thread in order to justify the orders.

An occupation/non mol will not stop someone doing something illegal if they are that way inclined, it just covers the judges butt if they then do. The only people that are penalised by them are the genuine ones who abide by the orders despite their unfairness.

M - June 4, 2014 at 12:07am

I have been on the wrong end of a Non-Molestation Order for a number of years with a on off girlfriend. when she fill like being with me, phoning, texting, coming to my flat for sex, dinner what ever she wants.but when she as got the hump with me she calls the police,they turn up and arrest me on any lie she makes up. i end up in prison with no bail till it gets sorted out. but on the odd time i have complained to the police they will just tell me to get lost or laugh at it more or less, even through i have stacks of text msg, phone calls, facebook msg, skype call logs, all saying she loves me wants to be with me,i have friends as witness to seeing us out together,but i can not get the police to arrest her for love nor money. they just seem to want to arrest me on her say so. it takes alot for me to go to the police as i don’t trust them and all ways think they will arrest me. she got the order out on me after a row a couple of years ago where i grabbed hold of her to calm her down after a little row, but it all got twisted around to something else in court and i went guilty to something that did not happen. and that’s as been the way more or less till this day. it is some what my fault for listening to her lies. but from my point of view the only way forward with this Non-Molestation Order is to amend it so that the person who takes the order out is under the same obligation and the person the order was taken out on. that is to say that should not be able to phone ,text, facebook, skype, talk to. call at your flat, house,ext ext ext.. has much as you should not be able to phone ,text, facebook, skype, talk to. call at your flat, house,ext ext ext. them……..
THEN WE WILL SEE WHO IS PLAYING GAMES AND MESSING A ROUND

Luke - June 4, 2014 at 1:12pm

” it is some what my fault for listening to her lies.”
======================================
.
You don’t say !
.
Look, it’s really simple, if a woman goes as far as calling the Police on you then you cut her out of your life like a cancer – ZERO second chances – even if the story is exactly as you describe you are a very large contributing factor to your own problem.

M - June 4, 2014 at 4:33pm

wish it was has black and white as that. when somebody takes a order out on you then calls at you house, phones, text, facebooks, skype,comes to my local pub. and you tell the police this and the police do nothing then she can do what ever she wants with this Non-Molestation Order and does play god with it, the last bit of madness of this Non-Molestation Order was about three months ago she went to the police told them i robbed her phone and gave her a black eye wile i was meant to be robbing her. so what did the police do come to my house arrest me charge me with robbery and breach of Non-Molestation Order as it was meant to have happened in her street.
all of the was a lie.
I went to prison for 6 weeks because of this lie. I was in HMP Thameside and after six all the charges where dropped the CCTV from her street showed she was lying, nothing happened. so now me and my solicitors are suing the CPS. but when i got out of prison and made a complaint about her at the same islington police station asking for her to be arrested for perverting the course of justice and wasting police time which she was arrest for at the start of the year for lying to the police again. i got a phone call from the police say i could not make a complainant about her as the charge was dropped told me i was wasting tax payer money by doing so. and later in the day the arresting officer phoned me said more or less the same, but told me to sue the CPS which i am doing. the police /courts/prison have just paid out for compensation over some thing that happend last year. bat has ive said to the police courts the best thing to do was to remove this Non-Molestation Order but will they? NO is the answer. but she still want to see me says she loves me but when she get the hump with me the police are at my door….. so a Non-Molestation Order is not as black and white as people think….so is she mentally ill? or just evil? or is this Non-Molestation Order just wrong? if they amend it to give me the same power has she as then we will see who is wasting everybody time and just messing around, because she as breach this Non-Molestation Order more then i have ever done but nothing ever happens to her. as a man against a women in England i have no rights. and that’s the way it is.

Luke - June 4, 2014 at 7:41pm

I am not saying you have not been treated unfairly, in fact if what you say is true then you have been treated absolutely outrageously – and as a man that doesn’t seem to be uncommon in these cases – but it really doesn’t matter what is wrong with her, because she takes it out on you.
.
If a woman calls the cops on you then you sever all relations with her PERMANENTLY – no exceptions. Nobody does that to somebody they love when they’ve ‘got the hump’ and if you call that love then I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you 🙂
.
If you keep having further relations with her not only does it do you no good in the long run but it ‘muddies the water’ for the Police and gives her more opportunity to make false claims against you.
.
Maintain ZERO contact, keep a log, take video evidence with a Smartphone if she bothers you, do everything to cover yourself – and don’t listen to the Police about wasting time, do what you need to do – they want an easy life.
.
Good luck.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 12:08pm

Ok Luke, trying to follow your advice. What happens if you have children with said woman? Do you still say ignore her and be non communicative with her infront of the children? How do you suggest to deal with it in that situation?

That is a situation I am faced with and like Yvie’s son is a losing battle I fear and am open to suggestions, with the exceptions of any physical contact which I am not interested in, sorry if that is un-PC.

melssa - August 6, 2014 at 3:34pm

I have a child with my ex partner. My child lives with me full time, sees his dad sometimes. My ex partner has other children, not mine. My ex partner expects me to still see his other children full time, when I have already time him they can come and see me anytime they want, nothing is stopping them they are always welcome. But as I live in a small 2 bedroom house they cannot sleep as there is no where suitable for them to sleep. I get abusive voice messages daily, calling me vile disgusting names, and threatening me all the time. This is almost everyday and I don’t know what I can do anymore, any help is appreciated.

Marilyn Stowe - August 8, 2014 at 3:55pm

Dear Melissa
It needs sorting out. You dont have to see his children at all? But if you want to resolve this in a friendly way and do wish to see them some of the time, then mediation is one way, going to court for an order for defined contact is another.
Regards
Marilyn

Brian - September 22, 2014 at 10:36pm

Hi
Can someone tell me if you can get order on a 27 yr son who is makeing our life hell with threats of violence and abuse to wife and self along with grand kids when in the house. Don’t have savings and on low wage HELP

Dora - October 11, 2014 at 11:20am

I’m currently considering a NMO due to being a victim of DV, my ex partner and I have 3 children together. He now has a new partner and I have a new child, my ex and his new partner still turn up wherever I am, ring and text me constantly, all part of the intimidation. I am only considering the NMO as a last resort so that I can go about my business without being threatened and intimidated, I’ve tried to not get the order but sometimes it’s just needed. However there are ppl out there that will use it to their own advantage and I find that unfair. When couples break up some people forget about the children! The impact that can occur to the little people is massive and will stay with them forever.

helen - November 6, 2014 at 4:34pm

Hi, my ex has a harressment warning and we are soon to go to court having filled out form E . When we were married I suffered considerable abuse and was so dominated I did not realise that I had been conned out of money and he had massive debts, he was on sex websites and had an affair/or two through out the short marriage. He now lives with her and thinks he will get what money I have left by not working and also the house which he never paid a penny into. All his family have been told horrendous lies about me, some believe him, however, I am not the first of his vitims. He has committed criminal acts that I will have to write about on form E ( they not come to court yet, nor does he know that some might, confusing but true). However, my telling the court may put me in more danger. Police and womans aid etc have told me to do NMO, however, I would have to put down why I think I am in danger, the fact is if I put down on the NMO he will naturally know what I am putting on the form E so I am in a very difficult situation. I would like to add that there are many lovely men and women out in this world, but there are also some that are not and I would never of thought in my wildest dreams that I would have been a victim of domestic abuse, but I am and live in fear. any advise thank you.

Andrew - November 7, 2014 at 5:40pm

Helen, I am confused, are you looking for some way to do Form E without him seeing it?

I don’t believe it can be done. He has every right to see it.

helen - November 7, 2014 at 10:27pm

Hi Andrew, sorry if I sound confused. What it is on my form E there is a lot about his conduct, on the basis of this the woman’s aid have suggested I bring a non molestation order in place because they consider I will be at risk from revealing the information. The information regards criminal activities that I have reported and are under investigation by various authorities which have not yet come to court…and he is unaware that I am to reveal these on the form E, So therefore they are only accusations at the moment, but I can back them up with documentation which I have been advised to do. My worry is that he may go crazy and Womans aid have said I am brave, but it puts me in a vulnerable position. I do not know if there is any way in law that I can say words to the effect on my form E that would give an indication of possible actions against him without revealing the content, therefore? should I get a non molestation order in place prior to submitting my form E.? As I am not a lawyer I do not know if there is a term I should use that gives indications of investigation without saying what it is? Or just take the risk?

Susan - March 28, 2015 at 11:11am

i need guidance, a family member has taken out A NON MOL order on her ex partner and i heard what occurred by telephone but my evidence has not been recorded as there are substantial discrepancies in the order and i feel i need to attend the next hearing on Monday to correct her discrepancies as although violence occurred it was evident that both parties were being physically abusive and it was provoked by my niece.

susan - March 28, 2015 at 11:32am

please may i add, that her ex has never been physically abusive in the five years together, but reacted momentarily in defense to my nieces physical assault, i heard this , but she states she could not ring the police because she could not find her phone, but she spoke to me on the phone and also has a land line please can you give me advise as i feel there is an injustice being served to this man,and my evidence has not been recorded, can i just go to court and give evidence or do i need to contact any other parties with this evidence
kind regards susan

Andy - November 16, 2015 at 6:13pm

Hello there,

My ex-partner rung my mobile on 5 Nov and told me over the phone she is accusing me of violence against her and the kids. She also said something about a non molestation order had been obtained against me.
It was completely out of the blue. I had no notice, no letter or the actual paper-order from the court. I could not get all the details exactly, but she sounded very confident.
As of today I still have no actual order. I’m not avoiding anything. I just want to know if there is NON MOL in place how I can see what are the conditions.
Is it lawful for EX just phone me saying a few words about non-molestation order over the phone and that’s it it has been served on me?

Appreciate any help.

Thanks.

Andrew - November 16, 2015 at 7:13pm

Until you get something in writing from the court with the court’s seal (a rather grand name for a rubber stamp) you have not been served, are not bound by it, and it probably does not exist. If she phones again ask her which court, what date, and what is the number of the case; it will be on the top-right hand corner of the court paperwork. If she can’t tell you that she is probably making it up.

Andy - November 17, 2015 at 9:48am

Thanks Andrew!
I was worried sick… I’ve read somewhere that a phone call informing in general terms that there is NON MOL in place may be enough for service if the NON MOL was obtained ex-parte, without notice.
Any advice is highly appreciated.

M - December 30, 2015 at 7:49pm

Happy NY!
I had a odd-jobber work for me on-off for 4-years doing a variety of jobs around a property (all to excellent standard). Turns out he was a sexual offender but NEVER met my child as job on different site. Anyway, he’s in nick again and not coming out for anthr 6-mnths. Social Services are heavy-handed & Police Protection are threatening to take child off me. Legal on-line ‘forums’ advised me to serve a ‘Non-molestation order’ on him. But we were never any relationship only a working relationship. However, he sent letter saying he was in love with me 10-mnths ago (whilst on remand) so I kept his letters. Since then he has changed his tune and because he has been told he is no longer allowed near my home he wrote nasty letters to his ‘friend’ saying how much he “hates” my Son (who is only 13yrs old) a sort of harassment. However, if I go to Police they already want an excuse to collaborate with Social services/ his Probation to take emergency care orders so I feel I cannot risk it.
I do want to serve an NMO on him in the next few months, but so scared of Police Child Protection & Social who can take my child away for good. Where do I stand on this? Should I speak out or keep quiet.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 12:55pm

Rushing as need to do some work.

One of my 50 odd hearings, this male Judge tells me and ex a story.

Apparently he had a case where the couple kept fighting so the contact order said contact handovers to take place outside police station. Well, that was fine except one time the man wasn’t there. The ex looked into it and got a call back and he had been arrested.

Thing was he had an old car and an Irish accent and the IRA had come off of cease fire so the Police thought he was trying to bomb them, the role of a non resident father can be a hard one being assumed the villain. I quite liked the story, so I laughed, then everyone in the court looked at me like they do like I am supposed to be weird and that proved it. Well, I think they are weird. People should post more of these court tales on here I found the place funny it was so bad a bit like this Judge did with this story, perhaps why I found it so funny as it is sort of what happens, man gets locked up for ‘having relations’ with female, ridiculous really and is better to laugh than cry.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 1:04pm

I think, but am not sure, that my ex stopped this as the Police eventually after about 10 calls warned her to stop wasting their time and she was getting no sympathy from court either, there is a saying that the more you go there the less sympathy you get. Perhaps also the threat of being done for assault and perhaps her getting older and in a new relationship helped. Also, I think I just gave up on seeing the kids and see them when she says rather than trying to enforce an unenforceable contact order was probably what stopped her as she believes she won.

Mothers tend to think that being Mum means they are right and have deciding vote on all children related matters by natural law. Acquaintences tend to side with that as does the law. Which may be fine except what about Dad? Especially if Dad is paying. It is not right he is treated like this at whim of mum.

Did hear another story of man being arrested. He had a non mol and restraining order against him and was playing in a band. His ex turned up and was watching the band, then called the police. They turned up, waited for him to finish, then arrested him and he was done for it. Strange. To be fair they had a violent relationship.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 1:08pm

Me having more children and seeing her children less meant we had less of this nonsense of her assaulting me and claiming I didn’t turn up at contact weekends, was a bit of a nightmare and friends and relatives don’t help and police and courts make it worse, can see why men walk away, that is probably why the women do the accusing and assaulting to try and force them to walk away, going through hell to see the children and being assaulted and getting orders against you for assault and called names and banned from half town and having reasonable people cross the street when they see you coming without hearing your side to see children takes a stubborn personality perhaps.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 1:09pm

Not her children, our children, perhaps she has brainwashed me after all.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 1:12pm

Plus getting to pay in capital and income and paying maintenance for over 21 years, bringing up different children and half children and seeing my children part time and seeing different women and I am not even in a soap opera and never wanted this lifestyle. Crazy system of complex relationships between men and women in modern society.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 1:15pm

It is better to stay together and be nice and raise children nicely, getting the authorities involved doesn’t end well for society or fathers which is why the authorities need to look again at how they reward and support females who engage in this male bashing behaviour without good reason in these dodgy laws and dodgy places and dodgy institutions and the police and laws should be (it isn’t currently, but there is a lot to write on that and I don’t have the time) for all no matter what sex or race or religion.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 1:18pm

Last point. Am I a social outcast for having a non mol and trouble with police? No. This stuff is only worth as much value as you put on it.

When I got my non mol I didn’t care, I just wanted to see the children and I said so and got a contact order at the same time as the barrister said no and the Judge said that is unfair.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 1:23pm

Was an ex parte non mol, I turned up and got a contact order and she got the non mol for 3 or 4 weeks then a hearing. At hearing I signed an undertaking for a year as there was no evidence of violence as there wasn’t any and I have tried to meet her half way on all things court related in bid to see children and I advise people to do that as if you fight you lose as the court does rather think what mother thinks is best and you have to work with that and come up with compromises that overlap (and not throw punches – I put my guard up when she starts and most women aren’t that tough unless they have a weapon or a knife then its time to run, which I had to do once, she did apologise and not to do that again and hasn’t thankfully).

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 1:25pm

Plus, can crowds stop booing sportsmen please as it is not sportsmanlike or honourable as per Olympics and football recently and needs to change as being a sportsperson is a good role and they should be respected and encouraged.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 1:36pm

I am left wondering why police cells have all in one single mould medal loos.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 1:39pm

I have spent days in police cells without charge on this nonsense, mostly waiting for my solicitor to get up as wouldn’t speak to police without your solicitor. not nice places police cells and I shouldn’t have had to spent so much time in them to see my children according to local police force’s positive intervention (feminist) policy.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 1:52pm

If you find yourself in that position, please remember that, 1. the police are not on your side. 2. legal aid is free and on demand in police station if they don’t let you walk out without saying anything. 3. Don’t ask for duty solicitor, ask for a yellow pages and look up a lawyers that does both criminal and family law and phone them and if it is out of hours wait til they get in as going unrepresented against law you get stitched up have seen it happen and is a game which I don’t play but lawyers do they thus do it a lot better than me, if I said anything they would stitch me up even without evidence which there isn’t as I was never violent or anything anyway crazy game and try to avoid playing zero sum game best you can do is see kids if forced to play it which is why I had to go through that nonsense a few times and I resent the authorities for locking me up and treating me so badly without cause and if I had my time again would have sued them. Probably isn’t as bad now but if it is advise people to sue, think we have seen the peak of bad feminism and such things as police positive intervention policy and non mols as smarties aren’t there anymore but perhaps I am too much of an optimist, I write as hope what I have seen can help make things better for th system and others men and women and children.

I did look it up, and I cant sue the poliuce as Im out of time as was too long ago if Id known then what I know now I would and advise people to as the IPCC is not there to help but to close complaints without the police getting blame or anything formalised, they will say, we will have a word, which is worth nothing. One of my complaints got to the chief commissioner who commented that that was the positive intervention policy (since repealed) perhaps repealed as others less respectful of authority and Police than I did sue them where I did not, you live and you learn. Before I started this divorce with children process I did respect government and politicians and law was right, now I do not, still I do think people are good and can be made better and it is better to have law than anarchy but better still to have good and better laws please.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 1:53pm

Perhaps I should write a book on this sort of stuff? Lot worse things on tv and at the cinema these days.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 2:12pm

Aforementioned chief constable was a woman who was subsequently moved sideways to special projects following allegations of impropriety and corruption which plagued he and never went away so eventually she did the new person we had (male or female is not relevant) seems to be better. Ex Father in law being an alcoholic retired chief superintendent who also unsuccessfully tried to beat me up along with most of that side, calling them up also influenced their behaviour. I feel like John McClaine in that people seem to get very angry with me on divorce if I don’t agree with them, still, I think that says more about them than me and I try and walk away.

If nothing else, remember one thing, you are not able to control how another person acts, you are however responsible to control how you act and react. That said it can be very hard, at those times, like the REM song says, hold on, and keep going, seeing my children from time to time and the love of a good woman did help get through difficult times with difficult people, I did lose it a couple of times though and got called a lot worse than I deserved for those times and think the name callers including solicitors were a bit up themselves as kicking a man (or woman) when they are down I do not regard as honourable, by that I mean dodgy court (lying) statements no more no less.

Specifically calling it assault when husband shouts at wife for wife hitting him one too many times is bad law and it is the law, from experience, and should not be. That’s the worse I did and if I had have admitted to it to the police I would have been done for assault still I admit it here anonymously.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 2:15pm

Where there is violence, even from the woman, the court will put non mol in place to keep the parties apart, I see that as fair enough if can see kids still.

What is not fair enough is game playing to do that then cry status quo to keep house and children and money also and the law needs to change to stop that as that is what happened to me and many hundreds of thousands of other fathers wrongly please.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 2:32pm

One incorrect fact above, rest is straight out.

The chap in the band, well, I remember the story now, he actually was walking down the high street, turned a corner, bang, straight into ex from years ago who still had restraining order against him. He said nothing and walked on quickly without touching her or anything.

Letter that evening, he is playing in a band, the police turn up to arrest him because of aforementioned breach. They get there half way through and wait for him to finish then arrest him after the encore. Moral of the story? I’m not sure, except perhaps it is that the police like music too.

Crazy women like this who keep moaning about their exes to others and to them directly are known as bunny boilers after Glen Close in the film Fatal Attraction.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 2:38pm

Johnny Depp or his ex misses also has one of these against the other one. Please post more on their acrimonious divorce as it is heating up and lawyers are getting paid immensely on it.

Hopefully I get to see my children soon. Miss them for months now as ex is being difficult again. Hopefully they will pester her to see me then they will as that is how it has gone on such occasions before.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 2:52pm

Her defence to the assault on me in the car park, why my t-shiry was ripped to pieces? “Perhaps he caught it on a car aerial”. Did I think the Police bought that? No. Do I think they were biased not to prosecute her / put to the CPS (Crown Prosecution Service) as there was sufficient evidence? Yes. If they had asked me if I wanted to press charges then would I have done? Yes. If she had have been prosecuted and convicted then would I regret it now? Yes. The final point separating couples should consider. Down the road you don’t want to be fighting your ex all your life better not be bitter. I have seen old people die bitter to their exes decades afterwards.

Its like that story of the old woman who is told she has 5 years to live but they will be extremely painful, to which she replies at least she will longer than her ex who has only 2 years to live. You can live off spite but it is not much of a life and will do your health in. The story is probably incorrect, but I did hear one similar, perhaps worth looking up the real story/joke on the internet. I try and be as accurate as possible on here and with lawyers as if you don’t they round on you like they did John Prescott at Henly regatta.

JamesB - August 17, 2016 at 2:57pm

Do I hate my ex? Probably. Do I think about her or let it show or bother me? No. Do I act nice to her? Yes. If there were no children or maintenance we wouldn’t have to worry about such things.

I agree forgiveness is a virtue and it is bad to be bitter. There is a saying though, forgive but don’t forget, that is my advice to both men and women wrapped up in these kind of difficult and dysfunctional and violent and potentially violent and non constructive relationships.

jane - November 22, 2016 at 7:06pm

Hi I got a non molestation on my ex husband in September. It is the biggest mistake of my life. I would do anything to have it removed. Does anyone know if it is easy to Remove this on the grounds that we would like to resolve our problems and try again. Also I received legal aid for this. Would I be required to pay the legal aid back as I have no money.

Libra scales - February 15, 2017 at 5:26am

In 1986 my Father decided to leave my Mother in the family home and take my sister and I away to safety. He still had to pay the mortgage and we slept on sofas and airport seating for 3 years until legally we could go back home. The non occupation order would have been helpful back then. And a system where the Mother didn’t automatically have all the rights. Fast forward to 2017 and I have a one night stand baby miracle with a man I don’t know. Turns out he can treat me any awful way he wants to, take me to court for joint residency so he can claim benefits, and charm the police, child protection agencies, judges into believing that he is a man who should be respected. I truly hope judges do hand NMO’s out like smarties because if he comes to my home and threatens me one more time I’ll not stand there and take it anymore.

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