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	<title>Comments on: Why I disagree with Baroness Deech and her views on cohabitation</title>
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	<link>http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2009/11/20/why-i-disagree-with-baroness-deech-and-her-views-on-cohabitation/</link>
	<description>Where Family Law Meets Family Life</description>
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		<title>By: An evening at All Souls College, Oxford – and why I agree with Baroness Deech about legal aid - Marilyn Stowe Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2009/11/20/why-i-disagree-with-baroness-deech-and-her-views-on-cohabitation/#comment-31445</link>
		<dc:creator>An evening at All Souls College, Oxford – and why I agree with Baroness Deech about legal aid - Marilyn Stowe Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 15:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/?p=1427#comment-31445</guid>
		<description>[...] could have hugged her! As regular readers may recall, I have disagreed with Lady Deech’s views in the past. However everything Lady Deech has to say about legal aid, and the efforts being made [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] could have hugged her! As regular readers may recall, I have disagreed with Lady Deech’s views in the past. However everything Lady Deech has to say about legal aid, and the efforts being made [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Marilyn Stowe</title>
		<link>http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2009/11/20/why-i-disagree-with-baroness-deech-and-her-views-on-cohabitation/#comment-437</link>
		<dc:creator>Marilyn Stowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/?p=1427#comment-437</guid>
		<description>Lukey
Thanks for taking time to read and comment. Much appreciated.
Marilyn</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lukey<br />
Thanks for taking time to read and comment. Much appreciated.<br />
Marilyn</p>
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		<title>By: Lukey</title>
		<link>http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2009/11/20/why-i-disagree-with-baroness-deech-and-her-views-on-cohabitation/#comment-436</link>
		<dc:creator>Lukey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2011 22:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/?p=1427#comment-436</guid>
		<description>The only way forwards is to educate people from a young age about marriage, pre-nups (which should be binding) inheritance law and the need to clarify their legal position, this should start from school and I would be in favour of spending serious public money to get the message across. It is very very doable, but of course this would mean less money for lawyers Marilyn, however, I still think it is right :-)

Trying to force people to lose their assets without a marriage contract or indeed any contract at all really is shameful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only way forwards is to educate people from a young age about marriage, pre-nups (which should be binding) inheritance law and the need to clarify their legal position, this should start from school and I would be in favour of spending serious public money to get the message across. It is very very doable, but of course this would mean less money for lawyers Marilyn, however, I still think it is right <img src='http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Trying to force people to lose their assets without a marriage contract or indeed any contract at all really is shameful.</p>
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		<title>By: 2010, here we come... &#124; Marilyn Stowe Family Law and Divorce Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2009/11/20/why-i-disagree-with-baroness-deech-and-her-views-on-cohabitation/#comment-435</link>
		<dc:creator>2010, here we come... &#124; Marilyn Stowe Family Law and Divorce Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/?p=1427#comment-435</guid>
		<description>[...] of our cases included in the Law Reports. I also appeared on BBC Radio 4&#8242;s Woman’s Hour, debating against Baroness Deech on possible changes to the law on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of our cases included in the Law Reports. I also appeared on BBC Radio 4&#8242;s Woman’s Hour, debating against Baroness Deech on possible changes to the law on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Whiston</title>
		<link>http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2009/11/20/why-i-disagree-with-baroness-deech-and-her-views-on-cohabitation/#comment-434</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Whiston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2010 00:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/?p=1427#comment-434</guid>
		<description>What both irks me and makes me laugh is this faux equality bit. What is proposed is that women be compensated but not men / fathers in similar situations. This is a very Victorian view of women and &#039;infantilies&#039; them yet again.
Its a double standard repeated by our silly custody laws. Yes, men can be carers of children (in theory) but, No, we the court will give custody in 95% of instances to mothers and we the judiciary feel we can call that Equality too. What is not being told to the public is the chaos caused last time around by &#039;irregular marriages&#039; - please comment on that comedy, Marilyn ! ! !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What both irks me and makes me laugh is this faux equality bit. What is proposed is that women be compensated but not men / fathers in similar situations. This is a very Victorian view of women and &#8216;infantilies&#8217; them yet again.<br />
Its a double standard repeated by our silly custody laws. Yes, men can be carers of children (in theory) but, No, we the court will give custody in 95% of instances to mothers and we the judiciary feel we can call that Equality too. What is not being told to the public is the chaos caused last time around by &#8216;irregular marriages&#8217; &#8211; please comment on that comedy, Marilyn ! ! !</p>
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		<title>By: Marilyn Stowe</title>
		<link>http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2009/11/20/why-i-disagree-with-baroness-deech-and-her-views-on-cohabitation/#comment-433</link>
		<dc:creator>Marilyn Stowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/?p=1427#comment-433</guid>
		<description>I agree with you. First her relationship would have to qualify under the scheme and even if it did, I doubt she would have a compensation claim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you. First her relationship would have to qualify under the scheme and even if it did, I doubt she would have a compensation claim.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2009/11/20/why-i-disagree-with-baroness-deech-and-her-views-on-cohabitation/#comment-432</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/?p=1427#comment-432</guid>
		<description>Where there are children involved or where the woman is not in a position to earn income ( for example retirement age or close to ) then I agree compensation for economic loss does seem right if its a long term co-habitation relationship.

But what about a short term - say a year or two long relationship where there are no children and the women does earn a wage?  Should this women be supported for life?  Receive a big compensation package?   I don&#039;t think so!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where there are children involved or where the woman is not in a position to earn income ( for example retirement age or close to ) then I agree compensation for economic loss does seem right if its a long term co-habitation relationship.</p>
<p>But what about a short term &#8211; say a year or two long relationship where there are no children and the women does earn a wage?  Should this women be supported for life?  Receive a big compensation package?   I don&#8217;t think so!</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2009/11/20/why-i-disagree-with-baroness-deech-and-her-views-on-cohabitation/#comment-431</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 17:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/?p=1427#comment-431</guid>
		<description>Woman need to need men, if you give them the option and money to leave, they will - they think we smell! Then we pay via the government and taxes anyway. People are waking up to the fact that all Women aren&#039;t Angels and can be devious and manipulating and this is not as simplistic an issue as you and John make out and is why what I think should happen will sooner or later probably happen, and what you think should happen (and the right or government and Resolution to govern my bedroom) probably won&#039;t. Freedom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woman need to need men, if you give them the option and money to leave, they will &#8211; they think we smell! Then we pay via the government and taxes anyway. People are waking up to the fact that all Women aren&#8217;t Angels and can be devious and manipulating and this is not as simplistic an issue as you and John make out and is why what I think should happen will sooner or later probably happen, and what you think should happen (and the right or government and Resolution to govern my bedroom) probably won&#8217;t. Freedom.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2009/11/20/why-i-disagree-with-baroness-deech-and-her-views-on-cohabitation/#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 17:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/?p=1427#comment-430</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately then the Baroness is right, it is a bit of a gold diggers charter.

I can see both sides of the argument as I have a daughter and I am a divorced Man. From my POV I was stitched up in court in my divorce settlement and for my daughter I worry that she will be left high and dry or traded in for a new model with nothing and a child or two and out on the street.

The one ray of light in the future doesn&#039;t involve lawyers in family law I&#039;m afraid. CSA / CMEC should be abolished also and pre-nups should be binding. If you do that then you make men and women need each other, to earn enough and to bring up the children. The fallback is state benefits. Has to be the way forwards.

Some lighter comments. Firstly, I have nero full version CD / DVD burner software and Nero Essentials (Lite) version on my PC. And I do prefer the Lite version. My point is that of course it is marriage lite and would further undermine marriage.

Second lighter comment. Seems to me that this (co-habiting) situation has all come about with the sexual revolution and the invention of the Pill. Perhaps people should enjoy their new found freedom from reproductive responsibility issues and enjoy sleeping around rather than worrying about children, it&#039;s not as if we have a population worry in this country with the number of eastern europeans getting pregnant in this country - let them worry about it. If women don&#039;t want that then is the same position as thousands of years, and as it should be, namely that she needs the bloke to look after her and he needs her to look after the children, and i for one am doing this (co-habiting and having children), because I want it to remain my business and not be taxed or my woman and children to be taken away from me by a no fault divorce or devorce lite stitch-up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately then the Baroness is right, it is a bit of a gold diggers charter.</p>
<p>I can see both sides of the argument as I have a daughter and I am a divorced Man. From my POV I was stitched up in court in my divorce settlement and for my daughter I worry that she will be left high and dry or traded in for a new model with nothing and a child or two and out on the street.</p>
<p>The one ray of light in the future doesn&#8217;t involve lawyers in family law I&#8217;m afraid. CSA / CMEC should be abolished also and pre-nups should be binding. If you do that then you make men and women need each other, to earn enough and to bring up the children. The fallback is state benefits. Has to be the way forwards.</p>
<p>Some lighter comments. Firstly, I have nero full version CD / DVD burner software and Nero Essentials (Lite) version on my PC. And I do prefer the Lite version. My point is that of course it is marriage lite and would further undermine marriage.</p>
<p>Second lighter comment. Seems to me that this (co-habiting) situation has all come about with the sexual revolution and the invention of the Pill. Perhaps people should enjoy their new found freedom from reproductive responsibility issues and enjoy sleeping around rather than worrying about children, it&#8217;s not as if we have a population worry in this country with the number of eastern europeans getting pregnant in this country &#8211; let them worry about it. If women don&#8217;t want that then is the same position as thousands of years, and as it should be, namely that she needs the bloke to look after her and he needs her to look after the children, and i for one am doing this (co-habiting and having children), because I want it to remain my business and not be taxed or my woman and children to be taken away from me by a no fault divorce or devorce lite stitch-up.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2009/11/20/why-i-disagree-with-baroness-deech-and-her-views-on-cohabitation/#comment-429</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 23:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/?p=1427#comment-429</guid>
		<description>But Baroness Deech specifically says she is not “putting out a moral message”, but a &quot;message of freedom of choice and respect for rights&quot;. I&#039;m not a campaigner for old-fashioned values, and don&#039;t agree with you that &quot;marriage must always be sacrosanct&quot;. I think cohabitation is just as ethical as marriage. But I&#039;m sympathetic to Baroness Deech&#039;s views.

I&#039;m sure you&#039;re right that there are women who suffer terribly from relationship breakup, and have no rights. I agree that&#039;s a problem. And there may be a solution to that that I could agree with. Maybe the Law Commission&#039;s proposals do that, if they focus on proving loss. I&#039;ll need to look at them in detail.

But Lord Lester&#039;s bill was wholly wrong. People choose to cohabit precisely because it involves no formal legal commitment; to force such commitments on them (unless they paid a solicitor in advance to draw up an agreement) after 18 months of living together (which Lord Lester&#039;s bill did, if you analysed in closely) would discourage cohabitation. It wouldn&#039;t be the modern, hip, relaxed thing you imply; in fact it&#039;d be retrograde. For the sake of protecting the relatively few women you want to help, it&#039;d force young people who want no ties and perhaps divorcees who want to avoid new ones into a 50s style choice between living apart and taking on responsibilities. It would act against the trend for cohabitation, not go with the grain of it. And it&#039;d intensify yet further the trend towards single occupant households and the pressure on housing.

So I think you&#039;re quite wrong if you assume opposition to Lord Lester was &quot;moralistic&quot; - mine certainly wasn&#039;t. I think people should be free to live together without formal legal engagements. Come up with a solution that respects that freedom, and I might support you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Baroness Deech specifically says she is not “putting out a moral message”, but a &#8220;message of freedom of choice and respect for rights&#8221;. I&#8217;m not a campaigner for old-fashioned values, and don&#8217;t agree with you that &#8220;marriage must always be sacrosanct&#8221;. I think cohabitation is just as ethical as marriage. But I&#8217;m sympathetic to Baroness Deech&#8217;s views.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re right that there are women who suffer terribly from relationship breakup, and have no rights. I agree that&#8217;s a problem. And there may be a solution to that that I could agree with. Maybe the Law Commission&#8217;s proposals do that, if they focus on proving loss. I&#8217;ll need to look at them in detail.</p>
<p>But Lord Lester&#8217;s bill was wholly wrong. People choose to cohabit precisely because it involves no formal legal commitment; to force such commitments on them (unless they paid a solicitor in advance to draw up an agreement) after 18 months of living together (which Lord Lester&#8217;s bill did, if you analysed in closely) would discourage cohabitation. It wouldn&#8217;t be the modern, hip, relaxed thing you imply; in fact it&#8217;d be retrograde. For the sake of protecting the relatively few women you want to help, it&#8217;d force young people who want no ties and perhaps divorcees who want to avoid new ones into a 50s style choice between living apart and taking on responsibilities. It would act against the trend for cohabitation, not go with the grain of it. And it&#8217;d intensify yet further the trend towards single occupant households and the pressure on housing.</p>
<p>So I think you&#8217;re quite wrong if you assume opposition to Lord Lester was &#8220;moralistic&#8221; &#8211; mine certainly wasn&#8217;t. I think people should be free to live together without formal legal engagements. Come up with a solution that respects that freedom, and I might support you.</p>
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